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451 or 470 for street/strip car #1065645
08/30/11 08:28 AM 08/30/11 08:28 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
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Down South
DaKuda Offline OP
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Both lowdeck setups which would be better for some street use? Also, does anyone make a rotating assembly for either kit that offers regular rings that do not need to be file fit?
Re: 451 or 470 for street/strip car [Re: DaKuda] #1065646
08/30/11 09:14 AM 08/30/11 09:14 AM
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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The best answer is the most cubes you can afford. With cheap cranks available, 499 or 512 low deck combos get my vote. I have run combos of 475, 499, 535, 528, 446. Given the same heads, more cubes for the street is better.
An example, a 535 with standard port heads will have a torque peak of roughly 3800 rpm max, no matter what you do to it.Pretty good rpm for a street combo, never needs more than 6,000 rpm.
A 512 with the same standard port heads will peak around 4,000. The low deck 512 also gives you a very light assembly due to shorter pistons and small rod bearings.

8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: 451 or 470 for street/strip car [Re: DaKuda] #1065647
08/30/11 09:26 AM 08/30/11 09:26 AM
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I like my high winding 470.............

72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: 451 or 470 for street/strip car [Re: Thumperdart] #1065648
08/30/11 10:51 AM 08/30/11 10:51 AM
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I'm not interested in running a big stroke in a stock block ever again been there done that 451 or 470 only. Big inches are great but the stock blocks are not.
Re: 451 or 470 for street/strip car [Re: DaKuda] #1065649
08/30/11 11:04 AM 08/30/11 11:04 AM
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I`m at 11+ years w/two different head/cam combos and I can`t kill this thing and believe me, I`ve tried.

72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: 451 or 470 for street/strip car [Re: Thumperdart] #1065650
08/30/11 11:09 AM 08/30/11 11:09 AM
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I'm a big fan of the 451 and 470. Are there any kits that use non file fit rings?
Re: 451 or 470 for street/strip car [Re: DaKuda] #1065651
08/30/11 11:11 AM 08/30/11 11:11 AM
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Quote:

... regular rings that do not need to be file fit?


Why bother putting in a good crank / rod / piston assembly and then using "drop in" rings that aren't gap-optimized to seal in the power?

Re: 451 or 470 for street/strip car [Re: BradH] #1065652
08/30/11 11:14 AM 08/30/11 11:14 AM
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Agreed..........it only takes a bit of work or your machinest can fit/file em for ya.

72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: 451 or 470 for street/strip car [Re: Thumperdart] #1065653
08/30/11 11:18 AM 08/30/11 11:18 AM
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DaKuda Offline OP
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because I have tried it both ways in the past and for what were doing mostly street driving we didn't see any benefit between the two.
Re: 451 or 470 for street/strip car [Re: DaKuda] #1065654
08/30/11 11:20 AM 08/30/11 11:20 AM
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The benefit is knowing EXACTLY where the gaps are taylored to your engine.

Last edited by Thumperdart; 08/30/11 11:20 AM.
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: 451 or 470 for street/strip car [Re: DaKuda] #1065655
08/30/11 11:20 AM 08/30/11 11:20 AM
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Virginia Beach, VA
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Quote:

because I have tried it both ways in the past and for what were doing mostly street driving we didn't see any benefit between the two.


ok...

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70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (PLUMCRAZY):TOO MUCH HORSEPOWER, IS ALMOST ENOUGH!
Re: 451 or 470 for street/strip car [Re: BradH] #1065656
08/30/11 11:23 AM 08/30/11 11:23 AM
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S.E. Michigan
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I like my 451, it works for me and (I think) it has surpassed the goal I originally set for it.

The rest of the car not so much, but it's getting there.

I can understand wanting non-file fit rings, depending on what a person is trying to do....for example if a guy tends to use wider than normal ring gaps for the application anyway, there is no reason to start with no gap at all like a file fit....but I could never find any in a 1/16, 4&3/8 bore. I've deliberately got slightly wider ring gaps than usual in mine just for the safety factor....many would disagree with that practice and that's fine, it works for me.


Rich H.

Esse Quam Videri




Re: 451 or 470 for street/strip car [Re: ZIPPY] #1065657
08/30/11 12:11 PM 08/30/11 12:11 PM
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Quote:

I've deliberately got slightly wider ring gaps than usual in mine just for the safety factor....many would disagree with that practice and that's fine, it works for me.



Too loose is ALWAYS better than too tight. Always.

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
Re: 451 or 470 for street/strip car [Re: GomangoCuda] #1065658
08/30/11 12:32 PM 08/30/11 12:32 PM
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SoCal
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Quote:

Quote:

I've deliberately got slightly wider ring gaps than usual in mine just for the safety factor....many would disagree with that practice and that's fine, it works for me.



Too loose is ALWAYS better than too tight. Always.


Not always.... LOL

Brian Hafliger
Re: 451 or 470 for street/strip car [Re: Brian Hafliger] #1065659
08/30/11 12:48 PM 08/30/11 12:48 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I've deliberately got slightly wider ring gaps than usual in mine just for the safety factor....many would disagree with that practice and that's fine, it works for me.



Too loose is ALWAYS better than too tight. Always.


Not always.... LOL


When it comes to ring gaps, Always. Now if you are talking about what I think you are then I would concur.

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
Re: 451 or 470 for street/strip car [Re: DaKuda] #1065660
08/30/11 02:27 PM 08/30/11 02:27 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Bigger is always better, ask for non file to fit rings when you order the kit I would also ask for standard tension oil rings

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 451 or 470 for street/strip car [Re: Cab_Burge] #1065661
08/30/11 04:47 PM 08/30/11 04:47 PM

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I second Cabs idea on std tension oil rings for the street--I LOVE a 451 CI--I believe it is one of the all time better Mopar combos--they are easy to build--rev like a chainsaw--they don't care what rod length is in there--shelf stock pistons everywhere! Do a 451 and never look back--you will love it!

Re: 451 or 470 for street/strip car [Re: ] #1065662
08/30/11 06:56 PM 08/30/11 06:56 PM
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Now - Port Orange,Fla. Former...
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What would be the cost difference between a 451" and a 470"?? Ive thought about selling/trading my SB for a 451" or 470"
Re: 451 or 470 for street/strip car [Re: MIKES_DUSTER] #1065663
08/30/11 07:00 PM 08/30/11 07:00 PM
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Down South
DaKuda Offline OP
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451 has a very light rotating assembly. 470 is even lighter using offset ground journals and bb Chevy rods.
Re: 451 or 470 for street/strip car [Re: DaKuda] #1065664
08/30/11 11:26 PM 08/30/11 11:26 PM
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On cost, If you have a decent 440 forged crank for a core and a competitive machinist, the 451 made from a 440 crank can be lower cost. Same comment on rods. If you have a good set of standard dimension 440 rods, that favors the 451. The 470 uses a chevy style rod. If you are buying all new, there's little if any cost difference.

They are both good... it comes down to matching heads and picking your power curve. The 451 will want to wind higher than the 470 other things equal.
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