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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: 1Fast340]
#1037487
07/21/11 06:19 PM
07/21/11 06:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
454 bigblock chevy would be my choice to make the most power/$ in that range.
 no you're a mopar guy...stay on task here.
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1037490
07/21/11 06:46 PM
07/21/11 06:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,037
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,037
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
So I was getting heck on another post about BB vs SB so I'll start my own. Say you wanted to make 550-600 HP. Say you had a limited budget and you wanted to make a decnet reliable bracet car that you wanted to drive more than just to the track. Would it be easeier/cheaper say with a Small Block 360 (which I know can be made fast) or a Big block 440. You may toss in 340's 383's, Hemis and the like if you like. For S & G's we'll say the car weighs 3400lbs. A light B-body or heavy A-body.
Aren't there enough my pecker is bigger/better than yours threads going on ?
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: JohnRR]
#1037492
07/21/11 06:51 PM
07/21/11 06:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Quote:
So I was getting heck on another post about BB vs SB so I'll start my own. Say you wanted to make 550-600 HP. Say you had a limited budget and you wanted to make a decnet reliable bracet car that you wanted to drive more than just to the track. Would it be easeier/cheaper say with a Small Block 360 (which I know can be made fast) or a Big block 440. You may toss in 340's 383's, Hemis and the like if you like. For S & G's we'll say the car weighs 3400lbs. A light B-body or heavy A-body.
Aren't there enough my pecker is bigger/better than yours threads going on ?
John technically your 383 qualifies you for "big pecker" status. 
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1037493
07/21/11 07:14 PM
07/21/11 07:14 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,780
Alabama
Mopar-Al
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,780
Alabama
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Say you wanted to make 550-600 HP Say you had a limited budget make a decnet reliable bracet car that you wanted to drive more than just to the track. All 3 comments point to a bb when combined. Drive to WalMart, buy groceries, stop off at track, tech in, drag race for the night/weekend, get back in, drive home, then start over. Bet the small block would be a legend in its own drivers mind, temporarily speaking. Since it would wear out quicker. Cause if you have 550/600 hp in a small block you will not be running 13's,12's, or high 11's. Which means your RPM's will make more wear n tare. BB would be just another adventure. Still run low 11's and have the groceries in the trunk for traction 
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: emarine01]
#1037497
07/21/11 08:05 PM
07/21/11 08:05 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,141
junction city oregon
viperblue72
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,141
junction city oregon
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Mr. Yuck you already know the answer to this, as most here. It would generally be easier unless your car is already set up for big block. But also for the sake of small block argument a 408 is simple and cheap to build and 550hp is easy with a w-2 or eddie head ported. I had one that ran 11.0s@122 on pump would a 440 run better? Maybe a little but when you gotta change headers, tranny, then no room for power brakes and steering the stroked sb can make sense. 
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: dogdays]
#1037498
07/21/11 08:13 PM
07/21/11 08:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 568
Ky
moparmafia
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 568
Ky
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Quote:
No one is going to try to make 600 hp with stock pistons, so that's not even an issue. It'll be far easier to make the hp with a larger engine, though.
Of course, the cheapest way to go fast is Nitrous.
R.
well i wouldnt say no one. we had a stock stroke 440 with six pack pistons and 452 heads that flowed 304. that motor made a shade over 600 hp.
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: RemCharger]
#1037500
07/21/11 08:22 PM
07/21/11 08:22 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,481
Chino Valley
RodStRace
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,481
Chino Valley
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Cheap, reliable, 600HP? Not for a long time, although it's better now. Haven't you heard of the saying Cheap, Fast, Good; pick two. I would start with lightening the darn car, then build a stroker 400 or 440.  BTW, why are all these posts about 500 HP lately? Sounds like a bunch of chevy bench racers reading the Car Craft covers. Before asking this, ask yourself if you have driven or ridden in a true well built 400 HP car.
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1037501
07/21/11 08:35 PM
07/21/11 08:35 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
So I was getting heck on another post about BB vs SB so I'll start my own. Say you wanted to make 550-600 HP. Say you had a limited budget and you wanted to make a decnet reliable bracet car that you wanted to drive more than just to the track. Would it be easeier/cheaper say with a Small Block 360 (which I know can be made fast) or a Big block 440. You may toss in 340's 383's, Hemis and the like if you like. For S & G's we'll say the car weighs 3400lbs. A light B-body or heavy A-body.
What you state about the weight I would NEVER do... I can
make make a light car easier and cheaper than making
HP so IF I had my choice it would be a light car
and a SB.... hell if your talking a 10.40 car I can
do it with 400 HP and not be breaking the bank OR
the engine and be a great bracket car
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: emarine01]
#1037502
07/21/11 09:37 PM
07/21/11 09:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,146
Now - Port Orange,Fla. Former...
MIKES_DUSTER
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,146
Now - Port Orange,Fla. Former...
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Quote:
360s are all dog engines from Mopar... 22cc dish pistons .100 down in the hole never helped the power thing.... so the fact that there were many flat top 440s built @ the factory makes this post a non issue
Umm??? Im pretty sure he was talking about taking a 360 and turn it into a 408" 
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: viperblue72]
#1037505
07/21/11 10:06 PM
07/21/11 10:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Mr. Yuck you already know the answer to this, as most here. It would generally be easier unless your car is already set up for big block.
But also for the sake of small block argument a 408 is simple and cheap to build and 550hp is easy with a w-2 or eddie head ported. I had one that ran [Email]11.0s@122[/Email] on pump would a 440 run better? Maybe a little but when you gotta change headers, tranny, then no room for power brakes and steering the stroked sb can make sense.
Yes if you have a SB set-up already a SB would be the best way to go but if you start from scratch....
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: jim sciortino]
#1037506
07/21/11 10:08 PM
07/21/11 10:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,876
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,876
Weddington, N.C.
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for 550 hp reliably and most economically...I'd say the 511 B or RB motor with bowl worked E heads and a 255 @.050 .600 lift cam, A St Dommy intake and an 850 carb. I said Economical in terms of least $$$ for the Bang...nothing done right and built to last is truly "cheap". Buy the E-heads off somebody that just upgraded to Max wedge heads (like many eventually do) Nothing exotic about the shortblock kit, just top notch machine work and careful assembly. Easy 550hp, and yes, you can get 550 out of a stock stroke 440 or 451 B....but your streetability will be more reliant on a looser stall and deeper gears. If it's a bracket only car you can surely get there and the streetability isn't an issue. Case in point...I just did a 414 small block, horse trading parts and a a used solid roller cam I'm pretty safe telling you it makes an easy 550, I can also tell you it cost about $1200-1500 more than if I did the 'economical' 511 I just described above....The extra $$$ is typically in the needed head porting plus the typically higher grade valvetrain you need to reliably spin the motor high enough to use it. But a B motor don't fit too well in my car. Don't get me wrong I love it but at 500-600 Reliable HP a B/RB is the way to go...the reason is mainly the heads, Small block heads can make that kind of power...but not really out of the box. conversely, I'm pretty certain just about anybody can make 550hp easy (and with broader overall torque and less RPM) with a set of BB E-heads on a 470-up motor pretty easy.....with nothing more than and ultra streetable 235 ish at .050 Hydraulic Flat tap. Horsepower targets are typically all about head flow requirements...with less regard to cubes (when you make it up with RPM), torque curves and how you wish to apply it to the ground is really a completely different (and application specific) arguement.
Last edited by Streetwize; 07/21/11 10:58 PM.
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: BLONDE BARRACUDA]
#1037508
07/21/11 10:12 PM
07/21/11 10:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
a stroked big block would be easier but I dont like working on them because limited engine compartment room
move up to a b-body...
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1037510
07/21/11 10:20 PM
07/21/11 10:20 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
a stroked big block would be easier but I dont like working on them because limited engine compartment room
move up to a b-body...
Move down to a little car thats light with a small
engine and be just as quick but much more consistent
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: Streetwize]
#1037511
07/21/11 10:20 PM
07/21/11 10:20 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410
Belpre,Ohio
CHAPPER
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410
Belpre,Ohio
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I get a good 'chuckle' out of these "cheap/easy" threads.... Anybody that is on here reading these posts, that has ANY TYPE of car, KNOWS,,,,nothing is easy/cheap...they all require $$$$ and LOTS of labor time.... If you are looking for cheap/easy,,,buy a Chevy ..already built.. 
If you like drag racing, support your local track.
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: HEMI472]
#1037513
07/21/11 10:30 PM
07/21/11 10:30 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
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I would do a small block because I have a ton of parts and for a street car a light weight motor on the front makes for a nicer handling and riding car.
Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: HEMI472]
#1037514
07/21/11 10:41 PM
07/21/11 10:41 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
The look on the bb guys face when he lost to a sb is priceless!!
it should because it rearly happenes. unless the have a cruch on the small block
Happens alot with me.... I dont know what that word
"cruch" means ... and I assume you meant rarely
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1037520
07/21/11 11:02 PM
07/21/11 11:02 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
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I might have one of those on my little 422.
Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: CHAPPER]
#1037521
07/21/11 11:03 PM
07/21/11 11:03 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,481
Chino Valley
RodStRace
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,481
Chino Valley
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Quote:
I get a good 'chuckle' out of these "cheap/easy" threads....
Anybody that is on here reading these posts, that has ANY TYPE of car, KNOWS,,,,nothing is easy/cheap...they all require $$$$ and LOTS of labor time.... If you are looking for cheap/easy,,,buy a Chevy ..already built..
Yep, it would be easier to get this back into light street duty than to build a big small block to pull a B body around.
http://www.racingjunk.com/category/1363/Door_Cars/post/2236813/1979-plymouth-arrow-mopar.html
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: 1967dartgt]
#1037522
07/21/11 11:05 PM
07/21/11 11:05 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 781
MD
HEMI472
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 781
MD
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Quote:
I might have one of those on my little 422.
one of what????
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: HEMI472]
#1037523
07/21/11 11:08 PM
07/21/11 11:08 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
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One of those dreadful power adders...
Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: hemi-itis]
#1037527
07/21/11 11:16 PM
07/21/11 11:16 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
Sorry I dont have any of that on my little 405ci
I have a little 545 with something sticking out the hood  
Oh I have a 8-71 sitting in my office in the shop...
I just dont feel like running it... and I have a
nitrous set up also... dont feel like using it either...
and have a pair of turbo... some day I'll use this stuff
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: 1967dartgt]
#1037528
07/21/11 11:16 PM
07/21/11 11:16 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 781
MD
HEMI472
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 781
MD
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Quote:
One of those dreadful power adders...
witch power adder do you have??? and how fast does it go???
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: 1967dartgt]
#1037529
07/21/11 11:20 PM
07/21/11 11:20 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
Thats a hell of a price for a turn key car
Have you run it with the 340? How fast does it go?
Are you referring have I run my car with a 340...
yes, it was a stock stroke with W-2s and went 9.90
with 10.1 compression
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: 1967dartgt]
#1037533
07/21/11 11:35 PM
07/21/11 11:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
One of those dreadful power adders...
witch power adder do you have??? and how fast does it go???
I have a induction solutions kit on my car, plenty fast. Bring out one of your cars to a street car shootout at cecil and you could find out.
I soo what to get out o Cecil.
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: HEMI472]
#1037535
07/21/11 11:43 PM
07/21/11 11:43 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
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No not ashamed of what it runs. I grude race it for a litte coin on the spray everyonce in a while. Let me know if your hemi would like some. Its just a little small block on radial tires with stock suspension how fast could it be...
Last edited by 1967DartGT; 07/21/11 11:46 PM.
Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: 1967dartgt]
#1037536
07/21/11 11:55 PM
07/21/11 11:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
No not ashamed of what it runs. I grude race it for a litte coin on the spray everyonce in a while. Let me know if your hemi would like some. Its just a little small block on radial tires with stock suspension how fast could it be...
Ok....how about I get me the standard 150 shot and we see what happends? just a stock stroke 440 in a heavy full bodied, full interior 70 Charger
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: 1967dartgt]
#1037538
07/22/11 12:01 AM
07/22/11 12:01 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
No not ashamed of what it runs. I grude race it for a litte coin on the spray everyonce in a while. Let me know if your hemi would like some. Its just a little small block on radial tires with stock suspension how fast could it be...
Ok....how about I get me the standard 150 shot and we see what happends? just a stock stroke 440 in a heavy full bodied, full interior 70 Charger
Sure I will make it intresting and run on motor for that one.
or i guess i could just get a decent intake/carb and the right gear...lol
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1037539
07/22/11 12:17 AM
07/22/11 12:17 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,180
PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,180
PA.
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Nothing personal but here are my thoughts on power adders. 1. Supercharged street engines are always way slower than they should be and are usually dyno queen hemi's. 2. nitrous is for guys that can't make it go fast any other way but probably the best choice because they can brag about how fast it goes but never want to prove it with a time slip. 3. TURBOS provide unbelievable HP but it seems like 9 times out of 10 when it comes time for a race they are broke down and being worked on. (more money spent). 
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: 1967dartgt]
#1037542
07/22/11 10:52 AM
07/22/11 10:52 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
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Oh yea I have plenty of time slips to show. Let me know if you want to see some.
Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: 1967dartgt]
#1037545
07/22/11 12:52 PM
07/22/11 12:52 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,112
LONG ISLAND
fishy340
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,112
LONG ISLAND
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
No not ashamed of what it runs. I grude race it for a litte coin on the spray everyonce in a while. Let me know if your hemi would like some. Its just a little small block on radial tires with stock suspension how fast could it be...
Ok....how about I get me the standard 150 shot and we see what happends? just a stock stroke 440 in a heavy full bodied, full interior 70 Charger
Sure I will make it intresting and run on motor for that one.
omg did u just say u would let mr bigblock have his 150hp shot,and you would just run on motor Brad? wow he didn't even have a response for that..i love it
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: dogdays]
#1037547
07/22/11 01:01 PM
07/22/11 01:01 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
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Seems like a nice motor, 520 HP out of a 408. Have same motor on a engine stand inthe shop, except MP R/T heads and a little vortech blower on it. Made 485 HP to the tire on pump gas in a 2001 dodge 1500. That was through the overdrive trans and transfercase.
Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1037548
07/22/11 01:19 PM
07/22/11 01:19 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825
Sk. Canada
RemCharger
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825
Sk. Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
No not ashamed of what it runs. I grude race it for a litte coin on the spray everyonce in a while. Let me know if your hemi would like some. Its just a little small block on radial tires with stock suspension how fast could it be...
Ok....how about I get me the standard 150 shot and we see what happends? just a stock stroke 440 in a heavy full bodied, full interior 70 Charger
Hey Yuck, you need to put your car together and see what it'll pull on a hard pass. Forget the nitrous, internet, 4 bbl and all that.
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1037549
07/22/11 02:38 PM
07/22/11 02:38 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,141
junction city oregon
viperblue72
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,141
junction city oregon
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Quote:
Quote:
a stroked big block would be easier but I dont like working on them because limited engine compartment room
move up to a b-body...
Oh yeah let's get a car that weighs 1000 more pounds that makes sense. I think there's a few pot stirrers here that if they got their butts off the couch and actually went to the drag strip they would find that their porky car with a porky motor ISN'T running circles around all the small blocks. Its just a matter of preference. Plenty of peeps here running small blocks that are faster than your big blocks guys....SORRY that's just how it is. easier and cheaper with a big block.....yes. that's why I'm converting.
But that isn't what this post was about. It was about
Do you go pick on the young kids on the honda sight for fun too?
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: fishy340]
#1037550
07/22/11 05:14 PM
07/22/11 05:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
No not ashamed of what it runs. I grude race it for a litte coin on the spray everyonce in a while. Let me know if your hemi would like some. Its just a little small block on radial tires with stock suspension how fast could it be...
Ok....how about I get me the standard 150 shot and we see what happends? just a stock stroke 440 in a heavy full bodied, full interior 70 Charger
Sure I will make it intresting and run on motor for that one.
omg did u just say u would let mr bigblock have his 150hp shot,and you would just run on motor Brad? wow he didn't even have a response for that..i love it
well didn't hey say spray? I'm giving up a ton of weight. My car should run around 11.50. Keep in mind I have a stock stroke 440 with a tiny cam 3800 stall and 3.91's.
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: d-150]
#1037551
07/22/11 05:21 PM
07/22/11 05:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
how much are you paying for these power adders beside nitrous hp$$
NO2 is about $500 for the kit and what $70 each time you fill the bottle (every 10-12 runs??) A S/C set-up made fro a Mopar is about $4k. I made my own from a BB Chevy kit for $2200.
Boost is by far the best power adder..it's like a full time 125 shoot and nothing to do but push the go pedal.
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: d-150]
#1037553
07/22/11 05:52 PM
07/22/11 05:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
mr.yuck i was going with original post horsepower for the money. to me 2200 or 4000 dollars for a half second is pretty expensive. between big block and small block good quality parts about same price then add 4000 dollars just to keep up with big block just ain't cheap.give me half the supercharger cost with big block and it will blow the doors off the small block
I knocked a second off with only 6psi of boost. I was commenting on the cost. Nether power adder is what I call cheap or part of the original converation.
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: 1967dartgt]
#1037557
07/22/11 08:42 PM
07/22/11 08:42 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 653
Fredericksburg Va
plycuda
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 653
Fredericksburg Va
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Quote:
Quote:
mr.yuck i was going with original post horsepower for the money. to me 2200 or 4000 dollars for a half second is pretty expensive. between big block and small block good quality parts about same price then add 4000 dollars just to keep up with big block just ain't cheap.give me half the supercharger cost with big block and it will blow the doors off the small block
My buddy with a 406 small block and a liitle procharger F-2 on pump gas and 15 pounds of boost made 711 hp to the rear tire. Figure thats 100 hp in drivetrain losses and 150 hp to turn the supercharger so thats almost a 1000 hp on pump gas and a small block lets see your combo for a n/a big block on pumpgas that makes that kind of steam!!
what did it run I've seen plenty of 1000hp cars on pass time running 10's
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: d-150]
#1037560
07/22/11 09:17 PM
07/22/11 09:17 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
supercharger math doesn't add up.if the supercharger takes 150hp to run how do you add that back into the motor.if this is how it works when i add all this cam ,headers ,windage tray,intake,carb ,heads lite rotating assembly clutch fan and other small stuff together what the manufactures told me it would add i am at 700 horsepower
You dont add that back in... its what ever is at the
tire or crank ... which ever you want to read
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: dogdays]
#1037562
07/22/11 09:52 PM
07/22/11 09:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,695
nc
emarine01
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,695
nc
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Quote:
No one is going to try to make 600 hp with stock pistons, so that's not even an issue. It'll be far easier to make the hp with a larger engine, though.
Of course, the cheapest way to go fast is Nitrous.
R.
You cant get close to 550hp on a stock 440 flat top short block with the right set of heads and cam,  I bet there are some very close..... My point is its not possible with a low compression 360... so the 360 would cost much more in hardware to even come close... We are talkin low budget right.... as for power adders a stock 440 / 375hp engine with a 150 plate makes around 525... thats close, a 360 at its best with a 150 shot makes 370hp ... not too close 
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: d-150]
#1037570
07/23/11 10:37 AM
07/23/11 10:37 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
budget build 550hp how much $$ are you going to have in the small block.how much $$ are you going to have in the hemi.and then how much money will you have in a 383 400 or 440.
right, nobody said you can't make 550 w/ a SB, but it can be done much easier and cheaper w/ a BB. I didn't add Hemi's because hey are too expensive for most. I've know guys that took a lower milage 440 apart in the grage, re-ring, quick hone, new t-chain, cam, clean up the heads, reassemble add used intake, headers, 750DP and run mid 12's in a heavy B-body. (BTW that's 11's in an A-body) Not going to do that w/ a small block. Not as cheap anyway.
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1037571
07/23/11 10:55 AM
07/23/11 10:55 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
budget build 550hp how much $$ are you going to have in the small block.how much $$ are you going to have in the hemi.and then how much money will you have in a 383 400 or 440.
right, nobody said you can't make 550 w/ a SB, but it can be done much easier and cheaper w/ a BB. I didn't add Hemi's because hey are too expensive for most. I've know guys that took a lower milage 440 apart in the grage, re-ring, quick hone, new t-chain, cam, clean up the heads, reassemble add used intake, headers, 750DP and run mid 12's in a heavy B-body. (BTW that's 11's in an A-body) Not going to do that w/ a small block. Not as cheap anyway.
I think some of you need to do a actual price
comparison to see whats what... take a head and price
the same head in both BB and SB and do the same for
the rest of the parts to see what the price difference
really is(dont take a cheap 440 part to a expensive
SB part... try to make it the same part)... yes I
know I can buy the big dollar heads for a SB and have
to get all the pricey stuff thats needed to go with them
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1037572
07/23/11 11:21 AM
07/23/11 11:21 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,876
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,876
Weddington, N.C.
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I think i addressed that in my post, 550 is a 'comfortably attainable' target and probably the best for $$$ per HP comparison. All in all, the stroker shortblocks are going to be about the same cost, again the difference is in the heads....an OOTB Edelbrock BB and SB (for sake of comparison) cost about the same too, but the BB flows enough to make 550HP, the small block really does not....not without about $1000.00 worth of porting and maybe 200.00 or so for higher rate springs/retainers in order for the smallblock to attain the RPM high enough to flow the air needed for 550hp. You can probably/MAYBE make near 550HP with a hydraulic flat tappet cam in a 408, but that would take a lot more porting and in the end it wouldn't be the way I'd go....by comparison I know it's almost rediculously easy to make 550 with a juicer in an E-head soundly machined Big Block. Stock stroke, you can certainly get a 340-360 to the 550 range, again thast's with enough head and RPM but I think it'll cost you more, certainly more than a 440 based motor would at the same power level. Additionally, you can't bring the A motor/A body to B motor/B Body into the equation, to compare fairly it would have to be inthe same vehicle with the only difference being the drivetrain weight itself The small block would have an advantage there in that you can run a much lighter/less power robbing 904 behind one, if it's suitably built. So Again to be fair (if that's what we're really after, not personal preference/bias after all  ), it'd be best to back them both with 727's.
Last edited by Streetwize; 07/23/11 11:29 AM.
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1037573
07/23/11 11:31 AM
07/23/11 11:31 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
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Sure if you want to build something supercheap and not put any good parts in it then a big block would be cheaper. But once you start buying any good parts they are really the same.
Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: Streetwize]
#1037574
07/23/11 11:39 AM
07/23/11 11:39 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
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Weather you chew up the horsepower off the front of the crank or the back with trannys etc the motor still needs to make that horsepower. So that motor see's approx 960 HP worth of stress on the crank rods pistons block.
Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: 1967dartgt]
#1037576
07/23/11 12:03 PM
07/23/11 12:03 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Weather you chew up the horsepower off the front of the crank or the back with trannys etc the motor still needs to make that horsepower. So that motor see's approx 960 HP worth of stress on the crank rods pistons block.
It may see 960 worth of stress but we know stress
doesnt make HP... the engine makes about 820 HP at
the crank
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#1037579
07/23/11 12:51 PM
07/23/11 12:51 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
HYPER8oSoNic
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
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At 500hp, you can do an RB cheap, and a LA motor maybe a bit more!! You increase the power levels, you increase the build costs. At these increased hp levels, you'll have to spend more, regardless of block sizes. Oiling systems, must be upgraded due to the increase in engine rpms. Better heads to support that level of horsepower and stronger bottom end pieces, especially the RB. The bottom line is that both the small and big blocks will cost some coin to build at 550-600 hp. If the ECONO route is chosen, then big blocks would have a "slim" margin in price difference to their advantage, power wise, situation may be reversed with the small block outpowering the big block. Strokers are a completely different story, though this thread compares stock stroke motors. 
"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1037581
07/23/11 03:12 PM
07/23/11 03:12 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,578
sweden
1Fast340
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,578
sweden
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
budget build 550hp how much $$ are you going to have in the small block.how much $$ are you going to have in the hemi.and then how much money will you have in a 383 400 or 440.
right, nobody said you can't make 550 w/ a SB, but it can be done much easier and cheaper w/ a BB. I didn't add Hemi's because hey are too expensive for most. I've know guys that took a lower milage 440 apart in the grage, re-ring, quick hone, new t-chain, cam, clean up the heads, reassemble add used intake, headers, 750DP and run mid 12's in a heavy B-body. (BTW that's 11's in an A-body) Not going to do that w/ a small block. Not as cheap anyway.
I think some of you need to do a actual price
comparison to see whats what... take a head and price
the same head in both BB and SB and do the same for
the rest of the parts to see what the price difference
really is(dont take a cheap 440 part to a expensive
SB part... try to make it the same part)... yes I
know I can buy the big dollar heads for a SB and have
to get all the pricey stuff thats needed to go with them
all those pricy parts that needs to be added to the good smallblockheads arent realy all that expensive depending on how you look at it, if you build a motor from scratch and wants good highquality parts all the way it adds up anyway nomather if its exotic heads or not. for an example i dont think jesel or T&D rockers will be much more expensive for a W9 compared to a stock or stockreplacement head
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: 1967dartgt]
#1037584
07/23/11 06:43 PM
07/23/11 06:43 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
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Oh, it also has a 11speaker stereo system with two amps and I would guess it weights about 3700 lbs race ready.
Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: fishy340]
#1037585
07/23/11 08:07 PM
07/23/11 08:07 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
HYPER8oSoNic
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
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Quote:
well thats what i mean,we can buy cheap for both,like cast cranks etc etc.. its all relative to make 500 isnt really that tuff anymore for either bb or sb..  im giving up its to hot.
The "econo" route isn't bad at all, but... there's a term called RELIABILITY when selecting parts for the assembly of a 550-600 hp motor (whether BB or SB). You must insure that the motor
will make the 550-600hp, reliabily. A member previously posted about stress on the an engine at about 960 hp. That's true, and you would need NEARLY the BEST parts that money can buy for that power level and beyond. However, 550-600 hp does put SOME stress on the internals (reciprocating assembly) and at this level you NEED a bit more than you would at the 500 hp level. MORE than
a "warmed over" Magnum motor (400-450 hp, BB or SB) would need. Think about stress on crank/rod/piston assembilies, and at every 1000rpms (over 5500 rpms) the force keeps increasing itself, squared (check on this).
So much more factors come into play when increasing power. Big Blocks are more TORQUE productive
than Small Blocks and build it STRONG, FROM above idle going thru the midrange rpms. The bigger block design contributes to this, but they are victims to excessive bobweight. Rev potential (NOT hp) is less in the Big Block. The Small Blocks' claim to fame IS the fact of lesser bobweight and with that comes BETTER rev potential (more hp/torque upstairs, equipment depending) with increased "breathing" capability. But
their downside is LESS torque (than the Big Block) in the lower ranges. That's why Small Blocks NEED more multiplication (gears) than the Big Block.
Last edited by HYPER8oSoNic; 07/23/11 08:21 PM.
"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: d-150]
#1037587
07/23/11 09:06 PM
07/23/11 09:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
stock 440 steel crank ,stock ly rods ,liter pistons could handle 600hp no problem not even working the block.i think if i built a small block that level it would be aftermarket stroker crank possibly steel crank scat rods. that is the price difference.but my 440 build i used scat rods i got off ebay brand new 180.00 dollars.my machinist really had to cut on the crank
this guy gets it. And you don't have to spin it to 7k to make the power.
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#1037590
07/23/11 11:21 PM
07/23/11 11:21 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
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As stated on other post the car is a protouring car running 17in tires 6 piston bear brakes 13 front 12 in the back full leather interior was just a feature car in a big mag runs on pump gas should go 9.50s at the track in street trim and is a dog? What does that make your sons car a super slug? R10.50s in a car set up to go race. Sorry he's not here to defend himself as her is at the track racing his car and not here  . He added 200-300# t hmore to his car this week as he was told to slow it down more till he gets the roll bar in after running a 11.40 on the brakes last week in the 5th round. I would love to see how fast it would go in the Fall with the 300-400# he's added so far out of it and the four barrel hooked back up.  [/quote So I see you cant answer questions. How do you figure a pumpgas small block on 17 in dragradials protouring car in street trim through exaust to the rear bumper, full leather interior front and rear seats that should run 9.50s is a slug. I think there are alot of people on here with race cars that are that fast. I am asking you not your son, asked for your opinion on your sons car not his.
Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: d-150]
#1037592
07/23/11 11:37 PM
07/23/11 11:37 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
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Well I guess you also have a street car this fast? Mr d150.
Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: d-150]
#1037594
07/23/11 11:51 PM
07/23/11 11:51 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
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In the other thread you want to build a 360 magnum roller for a duster? And a bigblock dakota and a 273 nitro car woo you are busy!!
Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: d-150]
#1037597
07/24/11 01:28 AM
07/24/11 01:28 AM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
HYPER8oSoNic
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
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Quote:
stock 440 steel crank ,stock ly rods ,liter pistons could handle 600hp no problem not even working the block.i think if i built a small block that level it would be aftermarket stroker crank possibly steel crank scat rods. that is the price difference.but my 440 build i used scat rods i got off ebay brand new 180.00 dollars.my machinist really had to cut on the crank
I think at that high level of hp (550-600) and a nearly EQUAL amount of torque, I would be thinking about not reusing the stock reciprocating assembly and get brand new crank/rods from
the factory, MP or Scat. Whether Big Block OR Small Block, after 35-45 years from the assembly line, the original parts do not have 100% shelf
life (tired) and you apply 550-600 hp to them, IMO something's gotta give. It's called putting money in the RIGHT PLACES.
"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: whiskeyrunner]
#1037601
07/25/11 02:41 PM
07/25/11 02:41 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,578
sweden
1Fast340
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,578
sweden
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Quote:
yea good idea bro...lets melt all the small blocks down!
im going to do my best trying to melt a smallblock down from inside..
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: whiskeyrunner]
#1037602
07/25/11 08:16 PM
07/25/11 08:16 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,112
LONG ISLAND
fishy340
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,112
LONG ISLAND
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Quote:
yea good idea bro...lets melt all the small blocks down!
u dont need to melt anything just hit A stock 440 w 600hp and it'll crack all on its own...lol
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: Streetwize]
#1037603
07/25/11 09:05 PM
07/25/11 09:05 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
HYPER8oSoNic
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
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Quote:
for 550 hp reliably and most economically...I'd say the 511 B or RB motor with bowl worked E heads and a 255 @.050 .600 lift cam, A St Dommy intake and an 850 carb. I said Economical in terms of least $$$ for the Bang...nothing done right and built to last is truly "cheap".
Buy the E-heads off somebody that just upgraded to Max wedge heads (like many eventually do)
Nothing exotic about the shortblock kit, just top notch machine work and careful assembly.
Easy 550hp, and yes, you can get 550 out of a stock stroke 440 or 451 B....but your streetability will be more reliant on a looser stall and deeper gears. If it's a bracket only car you can surely get there and the streetability isn't an issue.
Case in point...I just did a 414 small block, horse trading parts and a a used solid roller cam I'm pretty safe telling you it makes an easy 550, I can also tell you it cost about $1200-1500 more than if I did the 'economical' 511 I just described above....The extra $$$ is typically in the needed head porting plus the typically higher grade valvetrain you need to reliably spin the motor high enough to use it.
But a B motor don't fit too well in my car. Don't get me wrong I love it but at 500-600 Reliable HP a B/RB is the way to go...the reason is mainly the heads, Small block heads can make that kind of power...but not really out of the box. conversely, I'm pretty certain just about anybody can make 550hp easy (and with broader overall torque and less RPM) with a set of BB E-heads on a 470-up motor pretty easy.....with nothing more than and ultra streetable 235 ish at .050 Hydraulic Flat tap.
Horsepower targets are typically all about head flow requirements...with less regard to cubes (when you make it up with RPM), torque curves and how you wish to apply it to the ground is really a completely different (and application specific) arguement.
This is why he is "WIZE"!! Excellent points!!
"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: 1Fast340]
#1037606
07/26/11 10:03 PM
07/26/11 10:03 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
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That was going to a engine builder(Andy Jensen) with a idea and leaving with a complete motor.Dart block,callies crank,je pistons, manley rods,jesel rockers,dart pro 215 cc heads etc, he took nothing to the machine shop!!
Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: d-150]
#1037608
07/26/11 10:55 PM
07/26/11 10:55 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
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Oh yea 9.50 on a real pass and pump gas.
Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: 1967dartgt]
#1037609
07/26/11 10:56 PM
07/26/11 10:56 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
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And I forgot you guys like those junk yard builds that make ten passes and blow up!!!lol
Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#1037612
07/26/11 11:28 PM
07/26/11 11:28 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
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The guy said he would drag this car down the track and since it makes around 850 hp I figure you will need about 900hp. Thats my new math!!
Last edited by 1967DartGT; 07/26/11 11:36 PM.
Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: 1967dartgt]
#1037613
07/27/11 08:38 PM
07/27/11 08:38 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
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So where are the 10,000 dollar pump gas motors that make 850 HP?
Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: 1967dartgt]
#1037614
07/27/11 08:59 PM
07/27/11 08:59 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
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Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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Quote:
So where are the 10,000 dollar pump gas motors that make 850 HP?
i dont have one but with a modern cnc'd ported procomp head i think it could be done
low deck 511 short block $4k
procomp cnc'd heads and springs $2k
cam, lifters,chain,push rods and gear $1700
oil pan, pickup, and pump $500
intake and carb $1k(i never buy new for a carb or intake)
rockers hughes or harlands $600-$1k
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: 1967dartgt]
#1037616
07/27/11 09:21 PM
07/27/11 09:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
So where are the 10,000 dollar pump gas motors that make 850 HP?
easy if you have a BB. all it takes is a little bit of boost and maybe 500 cubic inches. A stock stroke 440 that was making around 470 was toped with a BDS 671 and 8psi of boost and it made over 700. Doesn't take much. But go ahead and keep trying with that small block.
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: d-150]
#1037623
07/27/11 10:39 PM
07/27/11 10:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
hey mryuck have you seen that stock 440 cast piston motor the supercharger store built, : wait bolted on. i think it made like 800 horsepower see you do not have to be a rocket scientist to build a big block just a socket set
Nope, but there was a member that had a 61-62 dart w/ a junk yard cast crank/piston 440 w/ a 671 that ran high 10's with nothing fancy...
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: 1967dartgt]
#1037624
07/27/11 10:43 PM
07/27/11 10:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Quote:
hey mryuck have you seen that stock 440 cast piston motor the supercharger store built, : wait bolted on. i think it made like 800 horsepower see you do not have to be a rocket scientist to build a big block just a socket set
Would love to see those cast piston after a few races oh wait I would only have to look at the track to see them laying there. And how much was the blower set up fromthem. I priced a f1 from them complete with out intercooler was 5500.00 not cheap!
Not so much a piston problem as fuel...get the fuel in you can use carboard pistons. Problem w/ "mopar" kits is they COST TOO MUCH...make you own and you can save thousands.
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1037627
07/27/11 10:47 PM
07/27/11 10:47 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
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Great for you guys have fun in the junk yard and keep thinking boost and cast pistons get along. But at 250 a motor it would that like 10 motors to equal any real money. So stock up on those cast piston motors.
Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: d-150]
#1037630
07/27/11 10:59 PM
07/27/11 10:59 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
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Yup you keep believin that!! HAHA
Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: Mopar-Al]
#1037632
07/27/11 11:47 PM
07/27/11 11:47 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,587
Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,587
Great Neck,LI,new york
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Quote:
darn, I bought these engines and 1 more for 2k with all the parts to put them back together. A race shop in New Orleans was shutting down. Bargain deals are out there. But blowers don't count. The 392 is .030 over with jahns pistons, big cam and 6 carbs. It was a rather cheap build
If you got all that in the picture for $2k,you either
{1} Had a very large handgin,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,or
{2} Bought it 20 years ago
Nice score!!!
HEMI-ITIS has no cure.
My condition is fully BLOWN!!
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1037633
07/28/11 12:17 AM
07/28/11 12:17 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 415
Peru
cbarracuda
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 415
Peru
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Quote:
Nope, but there was a member that had a 61-62 dart w/ a junk yard cast crank/piston 440 w/ a 671 that ran high 10's with nothing fancy...
WOW 440 with a 671 blower that ran high 10's!
 Now I understand why some of you like big blocks only
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: hemi-itis]
#1037634
07/28/11 12:39 AM
07/28/11 12:39 AM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,780
Alabama
Mopar-Al
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,780
Alabama
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Quote:
Quote:
darn, I bought these engines and 1 more for 2k with all the parts to put them back together. A race shop in New Orleans was shutting down. Bargain deals are out there. But blowers don't count. The 392 is .030 over with jahns pistons, big cam and 6 carbs. It was a rather cheap build
If you got all that in the picture for $2k,you either
{1} Had a very large handgin,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,or
{2} Bought it 20 years ago
Nice score!!!
Yeah it's been a while, you aught to see the rest of the storage for parts. I go broke buying deals up. I bought a b body 8 3/4 rearend with 391's in it day before yesterday for 70 bucks. There's gold out in these hills Found an R5 p7 roller cam, dry sump, gear drive, intake, to pan for 5k yesterday. Short block was assembled to
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: cbarracuda]
#1037635
07/28/11 08:15 AM
07/28/11 08:15 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Quote:
Nope, but there was a member that had a 61-62 dart w/ a junk yard cast crank/piston 440 w/ a 671 that ran high 10's with nothing fancy...
WOW 440 with a 671 blower that ran high 10's!
Now I understand why some of you like big blocks only
ummm why don't you go do the same to a low compression 360 and stick it in a HUGE car (those darts were big) and get back with me on that. I'll even let you use your king kong 340 if ya like. My guess is you be in the 12's  .
You guys with your s/b's are missing the point. What ever you do to a S/B I can do to a BB and it will be faster PERIOD. I will get my 500HP much easier and cheaper than you will. I can get my 500 using iron heads stock crank, rods, hydro cam, stock shafts and rockers and you can't.
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1037636
07/28/11 08:36 AM
07/28/11 08:36 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,179
Atco NJ
DJVCuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,179
Atco NJ
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Quote:
I can get my 500 using iron heads stock crank, rods, hydro cam, stock shafts and rockers and you can't.
I'd like to see this - 500 at the crank with all stock parts
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: DJVCuda]
#1037637
07/28/11 09:37 AM
07/28/11 09:37 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Quote:
I can get my 500 using iron heads stock crank, rods, hydro cam, stock shafts and rockers and you can't.
I'd like to see this - 500 at the crank with all stock parts
why's that? You can get it with old school TRW 10.5:1 pistons, LY rods, stock crank, home ported 915 or 906 heads, 1 7/8" headers, RPM intake and a 509 cam.
Think not? Here's a freinds old set up in a full steel 67 GTX. As mention above stock carnk 440 w/ TRW's ported 915 heads, 1 7/8 headers, 509 cam, Stock shafts/rockers and a six-pack. Not sure what stall but he had 4.10's and ran 11.80 @ 116. That's about 465 at the rear wheels. I'll bet that's over 500 at the crank. Could be equaled w/ a single 4. I have another friend that ran the same thing except a 557 solid in a 70 4 speed RR, he had about the same #'s w/ more mph but I'm guessing the RR is a little heavier. Nothing fancy about either set-up.
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1037639
07/29/11 02:29 AM
07/29/11 02:29 AM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
HYPER8oSoNic
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I can get my 500 using iron heads stock crank, rods, hydro cam, stock shafts and rockers and you can't.
I'd like to see this - 500 at the crank with all stock parts
why's that? You can get it with old school TRW 10.5:1 pistons, LY rods, stock crank, home ported 915 or 906 heads, 1 7/8" headers, RPM intake and a 509 cam.
Think not? Here's a freinds old set up in a full steel 67 GTX. As mention above stock carnk 440 w/ TRW's ported 915 heads, 1 7/8 headers, 509 cam, Stock shafts/rockers and a six-pack. Not sure what stall but he had 4.10's and ran 11.80 @ 116. That's about 465 at the rear wheels. I'll bet that's over 500 at the crank. Could be equaled w/ a single 4. I have another friend that ran the same thing except a 557 solid in a 70 4 speed RR, he had about the same #'s w/ more mph but I'm guessing the RR is a little heavier. Nothing fancy about either set-up.
The average et/mph for the B-Body 440 combo is around the 11.80-11.30 range. Anything else, stroked 440 or not, is a bonus. Smallblocks, built
right can reach the 11.40-11'teens range, stock stroke, (it's been proven) so I would be wary of the races picked. The "true" costs of build where it consists of money spent where it's needed, will determine the cheapest build. And
for the sake of advancing technology, it isn't always the Big Block.
"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: HYPER8oSoNic]
#1037640
07/29/11 09:50 AM
07/29/11 09:50 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I can get my 500 using iron heads stock crank, rods, hydro cam, stock shafts and rockers and you can't.
I'd like to see this - 500 at the crank with all stock parts
why's that? You can get it with old school TRW 10.5:1 pistons, LY rods, stock crank, home ported 915 or 906 heads, 1 7/8" headers, RPM intake and a 509 cam.
Think not? Here's a freinds old set up in a full steel 67 GTX. As mention above stock carnk 440 w/ TRW's ported 915 heads, 1 7/8 headers, 509 cam, Stock shafts/rockers and a six-pack. Not sure what stall but he had 4.10's and ran 11.80 @ 116. That's about 465 at the rear wheels. I'll bet that's over 500 at the crank. Could be equaled w/ a single 4. I have another friend that ran the same thing except a 557 solid in a 70 4 speed RR, he had about the same #'s w/ more mph but I'm guessing the RR is a little heavier. Nothing fancy about either set-up.
The average et/mph for the B-Body 440 combo is around the 11.80-11.30 range. Anything else, stroked 440 or not, is a bonus. Smallblocks, built
right can reach the 11.40-11'teens range, stock stroke, (it's been proven) so I would be wary of the races picked. The "true" costs of build where it consists of money spent where it's needed, will determine the cheapest build. And
for the sake of advancing technology, it isn't always the Big Block.
not a chance you can take a stock stroke 340 and use an old school 509, home port job, stock valve train, headers and all drop it in a b-body and run close to 11's. I'd bet it would run in the 13's (if that) They same combo I wrote about above would run 10's easy in an A-body w/o a huge amount of stall or steap gears. Nobody is saying you can make a sb run...
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1037641
07/29/11 08:22 PM
07/29/11 08:22 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
HYPER8oSoNic
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I can get my 500 using iron heads stock crank, rods, hydro cam, stock shafts and rockers and you can't.
I'd like to see this - 500 at the crank with all stock parts
why's that? You can get it with old school TRW 10.5:1 pistons, LY rods, stock crank, home ported 915 or 906 heads, 1 7/8" headers, RPM intake and a 509 cam.
Think not? Here's a freinds old set up in a full steel 67 GTX. As mention above stock carnk 440 w/ TRW's ported 915 heads, 1 7/8 headers, 509 cam, Stock shafts/rockers and a six-pack. Not sure what stall but he had 4.10's and ran 11.80 @ 116. That's about 465 at the rear wheels. I'll bet that's over 500 at the crank. Could be equaled w/ a single 4. I have another friend that ran the same thing except a 557 solid in a 70 4 speed RR, he had about the same #'s w/ more mph but I'm guessing the RR is a little heavier. Nothing fancy about either set-up.
The average et/mph for the B-Body 440 combo is around the 11.80-11.30 range. Anything else, stroked 440 or not, is a bonus. Smallblocks, built
right can reach the 11.40-11'teens range, stock stroke, (it's been proven) so I would be wary of the races picked. The "true" costs of build where it consists of money spent where it's needed, will determine the cheapest build. And
for the sake of advancing technology, it isn't always the Big Block.
not a chance you can take a stock stroke 340 and use an old school 509, home port job, stock valve train, headers and all drop it in a b-body and run close to 11's. I'd bet it would run in the 13's (if that) They same combo I wrote about above would run 10's easy in an A-body w/o a huge amount of stall or steap gears. Nobody is saying you can make a sb run...
No..You are just against the idea of one (smallblock) in a B-Body, RUNNING HARD!!
Let me ask one question... Is everything that you COMPARE have to be in a B-Body chassis? I do understand and respect your combo - a classic example of what to do in a HEAVY chassis. The et's listed above were for their RESPECTIVE chassis (ie: 440 B-Body, 340/360 A-body). Most racers who run street/strip or all out track
DO lighten up B-Bodies. It's been an ongoing Mopar
tradition since the time of the Max-Wedge and Race HEMI era. Saves parts, less breakage and reduces the hp absorbed (in chassis) to move the vehicle. Granted the sky is the limit for displacement and with that in saying, you COULD put a two-door C body
into the high to mid 11's with a correctly built
540+ (stroker) wedge and some weight lost in the RIGHT places. But thats just ONE of a few odd examples. Smallblocks CAN power a 3500 lb B-body (stripper model/w driver) to the 12-12.5 sec zone, with nary a problem. It's the SAME weight as an average A-body, but a WIDER chassis (mass) to move! But, it's not as efficient compared to the Big Block. As CompSync put it, it's all about
careful choice of parts and CORRECT assembly. There are LOTS of people who are talented at extracting power from a stock stroke 340, since it's rise from the street scene in 68'-69' to the battle zones of the Modified Production classes till late 70's. There's still ONGOING performance development on the 340 motor, so just as you respect your 440's, 340's command THEIR OWN respect BIG TIME!!
"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1037643
07/29/11 09:03 PM
07/29/11 09:03 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
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Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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Quote:
not a chance you can take a stock stroke 340 and use an old school 509, home port job, stock valve train, headers and all drop it in a b-body and run close to 11's. I'd bet it would run in the 13's (if that) They same combo I wrote about above would run 10's easy in an A-body w/o a huge amount of stall or steap gears. Nobody is saying you can make a sb run...
Not that I want to get into your peeing match but I
have to say... IF you take your B-body and he takes
his A-body and BOTH weigh the same 3500# the A-body
will be quicker because it has a shorter wheel base
and is more apt to transfer weight easier and better...
carry on
what is the wheelbase on a b body? my driveshaft from the challenger slid right into my cuda but the rear was moved back some in the cuda
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: dustergirl340]
#1037646
07/30/11 10:57 AM
07/30/11 10:57 AM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
HYPER8oSoNic
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
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Quote:
Bringing the weight thing up over and over gets tiresome. It just sounds like an excuse. You chose to run a heavy car. We chose too. Our '76 Dart weighs in at 3,600 pounds with my husband driving, 3,400 pounds without. So much for all A-bodies being light. LOL.
Should have gotten the earlier model. It is knowledgeeable info that the extra weight is carried in the bumpers and doors in A-bodies past 74'(govt. standard Safety door reinforcement bars and low speed crash absorbing front/rear bumpers - H-E-A-V-Y, whew!!), otherwise
it would weigh a GOOD 2-300lbs LESS (with options depending!). Still A-bodies, can and will always hold their own at the track or on the street!! FYI: All the A-Bodies would have
WEIGHED (nearly) the same since their build in early 60's, but age and the government made them
FAT and heavy!!
"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
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Re: HP for $$$
[Re: Dean_Kuzluzski]
#1037648
07/30/11 11:48 AM
07/30/11 11:48 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
what is the wheelbase on a b body? my driveshaft from the challenger slid right into my cuda but the rear was moved back some in the cuda
They vary but if I recall a B-body is 114 and a A-body
is 108
Not ALL A-bodies have the same wheelbase. The 67-76 Dodge Dart has a longer wheelbase than a Duster/Demon.
Yeah thats why I said they vary
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ask zippy im sure he can let us know what demand mopaR has for aftermarket blocks!
