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build me a bad a$$ small block
#1035894
07/19/11 02:03 PM
07/19/11 02:03 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
sixpackgut
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Charleston
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i want to know how much $$$ and what do i need to build a 440 ci small block?
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
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Re: build me a bad a$$ small block
[Re: jim sciortino]
#1035896
07/19/11 02:15 PM
07/19/11 02:15 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
sixpackgut
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Charleston
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I dont think it needs to be crazy expensive with w8s or 9s. maybe indy-1s.
pump gas combo around 700-750hp. what kind and size crank is needed to get that many cubes?
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Re: build me a bad a$$ small block
[Re: sixpackgut]
#1035897
07/19/11 02:40 PM
07/19/11 02:40 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
sixpackgut
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ok, so by the lack of response, i take it that a 440 cube small block is not your basic cookie cutter small block
so, first thing i would like to know, is what type of block do you need to build this very large small block? what would be the bore and stroke?
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
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Re: build me a bad a$$ small block
[Re: sixpackgut]
#1035899
07/19/11 02:50 PM
07/19/11 02:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,710
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
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I Live Here
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Portage,michigan
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I think a 4.125 crank like BPE sells at 4.100 bore should get you around 440 cubes.
If i was doing old school smallblock like that, i would probably use a 48 degree block and the 48 degree indy heads. good roller ,good headers, should be able to make 700 without a ton of effort.
could just as easily do it with a good X block at 4.100 bore as well with the 59 degree indy heads.Electric water pump, vacuum pump,electric fan, etc should be real doable.
Another way is to just by an r5p7 busch motor, run it on e85 and you are there as well, and WAY cheaper.
Last edited by B3422W5; 07/19/11 02:52 PM.
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8
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Re: build me a bad a$$ small block
[Re: B3422W5]
#1035901
07/19/11 02:58 PM
07/19/11 02:58 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,019
Finland
mafo
super stock
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super stock
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Posts: 1,019
Finland
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I would go with the bigger bore if you want to use w8 or 9 heads, you just cant fit 2.20 intake valves in a 4.10 bore 
-65 Valiant,420", all motor,2700#, dot tires, 8,42 @ 160,2
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Re: build me a bad a$$ small block
[Re: sixpackgut]
#1035902
07/19/11 03:01 PM
07/19/11 03:01 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
sixpackgut
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Charleston
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price check on aisle 3
indy sells a 440 short block
360-S7-440A
$4945
indy 360-1 kit is $3535
not sure if i want to go this route since i wouldnt use their pushrods or rockers.
do these heads need porting? how much would that add?
would i want to do the 48 degree upgrade? i would think so, right?
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
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Re: build me a bad a$$ small block
[Re: mafo]
#1035905
07/19/11 03:17 PM
07/19/11 03:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,710
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
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I Live Here
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Portage,michigan
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Quote:
I would go with the bigger bore if you want to use w8 or 9 heads, you just cant fit 2.20 intake valves in a 4.10 bore
Correct, that is why he said above he doesnt think it has to be a w8 or w9 deal. with an indy head 4.100 with a long crank would be fine.
If i wanted a bad [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean] small block on the cheap, it would be an r5p7 motor, can get a fresh, COMPLETE, and ready to run motor that will make 700 horsepower( likely more)easily for less than you can build an eddie headed 416 that would make 500 ponies, much less an indy headed deal you are going to have 15k in or more when all is said and done.
freind of mine locally did this exact thing and went 9.40's with the supplied belt driven water pump, and junk headers he fabbed up off a w2 motor. And it ran super cool at the track with even back to back laps. Drove it around on the street as well.No telling what it may have run had he played with it a little more than he did.
Last edited by B3422W5; 07/19/11 03:28 PM.
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Re: build me a bad a$$ small block
[Re: sixpackgut]
#1035906
07/19/11 03:19 PM
07/19/11 03:19 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
sixpackgut
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Charleston
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ok, here is what i got
short block $4945
360-1 48* $4535
cam, lifters,shaft $1000
headers $750
carb $1000
oil system, cooling, balancer and dist & wires $2000
i'll port the heads and intake myself to save some cash.
will this do it? 700-750hp?
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
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Re: build me a bad a$$ small block
[Re: DragDart360]
#1035907
07/19/11 03:22 PM
07/19/11 03:22 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
Leon441
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Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
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48 degree is well worth a grand.
Sounds like you want a low RPM engine grunt engine.
Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
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Re: build me a bad a$$ small block
[Re: sixpackgut]
#1035910
07/19/11 03:37 PM
07/19/11 03:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,710
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,710
Portage,michigan
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Quote:
Quote:
48 degree is well worth a grand.
Sounds like you want a low RPM engine grunt engine.
no, why do you say that? that is why i would choose the bigger bore over the stroke 
that many inches even with an indy head is going to lower the power band down somewhat.my old w5 motor was pretty much done at 7000rpm even at 422 inches, i suspect it made peak power at about 6700-6800rpm. With pump gas you obviously will have a smaller camshaft than something with 13 or 14 to 1 compression. 440 inches on pump gas with indy heads should make its most power probably around 6500 imo.
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8
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Re: build me a bad a$$ small block
[Re: B3422W5]
#1035911
07/19/11 03:48 PM
07/19/11 03:48 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
sixpackgut
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Drag Week Mod Champion
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Charleston
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
48 degree is well worth a grand.
Sounds like you want a low RPM engine grunt engine.
no, why do you say that? that is why i would choose the bigger bore over the stroke
that many inches even with an indy head is going to lower the power band down somewhat.my old w5 motor was pretty much done at 7000rpm even at 422 inches, i suspect it made peak power at about 6700-6800rpm. With pump gas you obviously will have a smaller camshaft than something with 13 or 14 to 1 compression. 440 inches on pump gas with indy heads should make its most power probably around 6500 imo.
Oh, i see what your saying. Hell, i saw a set of 360-1 heads on quicktrees motor and those ports looked huge to me. as a matter of fact, at a PRI show, quicktree started cracking up, and i was like what are you laughing at, he said look how small those bb ports are. he was pointing at EZ heads 
anyone know how Quicktree is doing?
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
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Re: build me a bad a$$ small block
[Re: sixpackgut]
#1035912
07/19/11 03:50 PM
07/19/11 03:50 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
Leon441
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
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Your head choice.
And for what you are wanting to do that is about the best choice out. Strokers are great when you want to get it done with less RPM. You want some RPM build less stroke.
My choice would be 4.00" stroke and go for at least 4.125" bore.
Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
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Re: build me a bad a$$ small block
[Re: dragram440]
#1035915
07/19/11 04:45 PM
07/19/11 04:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Why not a big block LOL!!! 
I guess he wants to spend a ton of money.
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Re: build me a bad a$$ small block
[Re: fishy340]
#1035918
07/19/11 05:00 PM
07/19/11 05:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
my engine cost a few grand more then predator heads cost themselves..340 resto block,4" scat crank,4.185 diamond pistons,11.3 compression,and knowledge from ryanj o yea cam is little under 700lift..its a street car also 3.91 gears and all so i paid extra for pac springs...i was gonna try methanol injection to make up for the lack of horsepower being it only made 729hp with a 950carb and only 620lbs of torque..i know yuck is in the bushes reading my combo..lol 
meth is good because you can run the advance you want on pump gas. P.S. 700 lift and street car don't go together...lol Bushes?? I doon need no steankin' stroker crank.
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Re: build me a bad a$$ small block
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1035919
07/19/11 05:02 PM
07/19/11 05:02 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,112
LONG ISLAND
fishy340
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LONG ISLAND
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Quote:
Quote:
my engine cost a few grand more then predator heads cost themselves..340 resto block,4" scat crank,4.185 diamond pistons,11.3 compression,and knowledge from ryanj o yea cam is little under 700lift..its a street car also 3.91 gears and all so i paid extra for pac springs...i was gonna try methanol injection to make up for the lack of horsepower being it only made 729hp with a 950carb and only 620lbs of torque..i know yuck is in the bushes reading my combo..lol
meth is good because you can run the advance you want on pump gas. P.S. 700 lift and street car don't go together...lol Bushes?? I doon need no steankin' stroker crank.
lol 
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Re: build me a bad a$$ small block
[Re: dusturbd340W5]
#1035921
07/19/11 06:19 PM
07/19/11 06:19 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
sixpackgut
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Drag Week Mod Champion
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Charleston
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Why not a big block LOL!!!
I guess he wants to spend a ton of money.
well, at the amount i have spent so far on this small block, i could have built 3 600 hp big blocks which in a 3000 pound car would run a decent number 
I got a turn key 600+ horse SB I can sell you for a good price.
Woody, send me a PM
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
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Re: build me a bad a$$ small block
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#1035923
07/19/11 07:20 PM
07/19/11 07:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,484
SoCal
Brian Hafliger
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SoCal
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How about a 450cid, pump gas, Indy heads done by me, 1250 dominator, pump gas and around 700-720HP for about 15,500.00?
It won't be a street cam but it will make the power. 48° block, Charlies pan, etc....
Basicly our 800Hp build on pump gas and different cam.
Brian
Brian Hafliger
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Re: build me a bad a$$ small block
[Re: Brian Hafliger]
#1035924
07/19/11 07:29 PM
07/19/11 07:29 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
sixpackgut
OP
Drag Week Mod Champion
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Charleston
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Quote:
How about a 450cid, pump gas, Indy heads done by me, 1250 dominator, pump gas and around 700-720HP for about 15,500.00?
It won't be a street cam but it will make the power. 48° block, Charlies pan, etc....
Basicly our 800Hp build on pump gas and different cam.
Brian
Brian, where would peak HP be on that combo?
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
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Re: build me a bad a$$ small block
[Re: Brian Hafliger]
#1035932
07/19/11 08:17 PM
07/19/11 08:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
How about a 450cid, pump gas, Indy heads done by me, 1250 dominator, pump gas and around 700-720HP for about 15,500.00?
It won't be a street cam but it will make the power. 48° block, Charlies pan, etc....
Basicly our 800Hp build on pump gas and different cam.
Brian
 that's a TON of money. WHy not just use a low compression 360 and a blower and be done for half? less cam, less stall and less gear required and you can DRIVE IT
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Re: build me a bad a$$ small block
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1035936
07/19/11 09:02 PM
07/19/11 09:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,484
SoCal
Brian Hafliger
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,484
SoCal
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Quote:
Quote:
How about a 450cid, pump gas, Indy heads done by me, 1250 dominator, pump gas and around 700-720HP for about 15,500.00?
It won't be a street cam but it will make the power. 48° block, Charlies pan, etc....
Basicly our 800Hp build on pump gas and different cam.
Brian
that's a TON of money. WHy not just use a low compression 360 and a blower and be done for half? less cam, less stall and less gear required and you can DRIVE IT
I agree NA is not the best way to get that much power. But that wasn't the question. And that included Carb to pan, headers and belt drive.
It might be less, but I never quote low...makes for upset customers.
I'm involved with a customer of mine doing a Twin Turbo deal, RHS heads, hyd. roller cam that should make 700+ on pump gas with around 8-9psi and then we'll turn up the wick to about 14psi and see what happens.
He'll have about 12K in it including the Mega Squirt EFI!
Brian
Brian Hafliger
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Re: build me a bad a$$ small block
[Re: Brian Hafliger]
#1035937
07/19/11 10:06 PM
07/19/11 10:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
How about a 450cid, pump gas, Indy heads done by me, 1250 dominator, pump gas and around 700-720HP for about 15,500.00?
It won't be a street cam but it will make the power. 48° block, Charlies pan, etc....
Basicly our 800Hp build on pump gas and different cam.
Brian
that's a TON of money. WHy not just use a low compression 360 and a blower and be done for half? less cam, less stall and less gear required and you can DRIVE IT
I agree NA is not the best way to get that much power. But that wasn't the question. And that included Carb to pan, headers and belt drive.
It might be less, but I never quote low...makes for upset customers.
I'm involved with a customer of mine doing a Twin Turbo deal, RHS heads, hyd. roller cam that should make 700+ on pump gas with around 8-9psi and then we'll turn up the wick to about 14psi and see what happens.
He'll have about 12K in it including the Mega Squirt EFI!
Brian
boost is the best way to go. 700 at 8 is good. w/ 12 lbs of boost you are really gonna push the numbers. You can get 700 all day w/ a BB e-heads and a 671. nothing fancy.
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Re: build me a bad a$$ small block
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1035938
07/19/11 11:58 PM
07/19/11 11:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,484
SoCal
Brian Hafliger
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,484
SoCal
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6-71 blower isn't as pump gas friendly as the newer stuff.
I don't disagree, but if you beef up the bottom end for the power, your gonna still have alot of money tied up in the build.
Brian Hafliger
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