Re: big block VS small block
[Re: HYPER8oSoNic]
#1035656
07/24/11 06:44 PM
07/24/11 06:44 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,028 Trumbull,CT.
jim sciortino
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Apr 2007
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Trumbull,CT.
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Sometimes, people mistake these threads as a bash a big, or bash a small block deal.
I didn't see it that way at all and the few points I mentioned, I consider critical and therefore should be optimzed no matter the cubic inch, to attain the lowest possible ET.......IMO.
Don't worry about the "superficial" Jim. Some of us DID understand the facts of your input and consider it very useful (helpful). Thanks!
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Re: big block VS small block
[Re: cbarracuda]
#1035661
07/25/11 02:27 PM
07/25/11 02:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,926 A shed in England
Tig
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Posts: 2,926
A shed in England
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Man, you big block guys are too much. There is a picture of my Charger 3500 punds + driver, Hod Rod magazine and Car craft also, 440 factory strok and factory heads, 906īs. It ran 10.50 back in the 90īs, street car. 440 are ok and they run strong, but I like small block. there is nothing wrong with small blocks and I beleive they can outrun any big block (So donīt say people start small block and then go big blobk because itīs not true in every case)
Wow!! I have that issue somewhere.
How 'bout this though We have 2 cars, both weigh 3000lb, both go 11.00 @ 125mph. One has a B/B, the other a S/B. Which one makes the most power?
'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials. 9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge. RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
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Re: big block VS small block
[Re: Tig]
#1035662
07/25/11 03:14 PM
07/25/11 03:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Man, you big block guys are too much. There is a picture of my Charger 3500 punds + driver, Hod Rod magazine and Car craft also, 440 factory strok and factory heads, 906īs. It ran 10.50 back in the 90īs, street car. 440 are ok and they run strong, but I like small block. there is nothing wrong with small blocks and I beleive they can outrun any big block (So donīt say people start small block and then go big blobk because itīs not true in every case)
Wow!! I have that issue somewhere.
How 'bout this though We have 2 cars, both weigh 3000lb, both go 11.00 @ 125mph. One has a B/B, the other a S/B. Which one makes the most power?
not really the question , but the BB would do it cheaper.
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Re: big block VS small block
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1035663
07/25/11 05:32 PM
07/25/11 05:32 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 320 PA
w7smallblock
OP
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Posts: 320
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not really the question , but the BB would do it cheaper.
Not always what if I was given a 500hp small block then would the Big block be cheaper?
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Re: big block VS small block
[Re: Tig]
#1035664
07/25/11 08:21 PM
07/25/11 08:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591 Canton, Ohio
Sport440
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master
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How 'bout this though We have 2 cars, both weigh 3000lb, both go 11.00 @ 125mph. One has a B/B, the other a S/B. Which one makes the most power?
Based on Physics.
If you run the numbers on 3 different HP calculaters they should all be dead nuts on But they wont!
Should be simple math right
Based on Physics,
If both combos are optimized, they should have the exact same HP right, its simple Physics as posted earlier by others
Now comes Theory,
Rehr Morrison theorizes, that if you take the Same HP but apply it at a higher RPM with more mechanical leverage. You will be faster!
Since the SB should rev higher in the above said combo. It therefore must have Less HP then the BB since it ran "only" the same number and not faster!
So the same exact HP, wont produce the Same ET, based on this.
I theorized, as others have that the BB with its wider torque/HP band would be faster then the SB at the same HP. So therefore the SB must have More HP then the BB to run the same number!
So the same exact HP, wont produce the Same ET, based on this.
No Doubt Physics are involved, it just seems to be to hard to nail down with just the Simple, "MPH to Weight" , "Power band to Stroke" theorys.
IMO, Rehr/Morrisons theory has merit @ 10,000 RPM with more gear leverage.
But, so does the broader powerband scenario @ 6000 RPM, Take your choice with this 11.00 combo.
For the record, 500 HP @ 10,000 RPM is 263# of torque. 500 HP @ 6000 RPM is 438# of torque.
Please Tell me Tig, that you have some Dyno numbers to toss in. And that the Dyno was the same Dyno, not two across town that are a 100 HP different from one another.
Lets not forget, Jim Scortino, and W7 both stated, HP is HP, with the same HP if optimized it should run the Same ET. Its Physics, right.!
Rehr/Morrison says no, I say no!
These combos dont race down the track at a Fixed RPM HP level!
The easiest Physics of all should be the "weight vs MPH = xxx amount of HP". Why cant All of the various HP calculators agree?
After all, Its simple Physics right.
Last edited by Sport440; 07/26/11 12:01 AM.
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Re: big block VS small block
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1035665
07/25/11 08:54 PM
07/25/11 08:54 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275 Desert Tracker
HYPER8oSoNic
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Desert Tracker
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Man, you big block guys are too much. There is a picture of my Charger 3500 punds + driver, Hod Rod magazine and Car craft also, 440 factory strok and factory heads, 906īs. It ran 10.50 back in the 90īs, street car. 440 are ok and they run strong, but I like small block. there is nothing wrong with small blocks and I beleive they can outrun any big block (So donīt say people start small block and then go big blobk because itīs not true in every case)
Wow!! I have that issue somewhere.
How 'bout this though We have 2 cars, both weigh 3000lb, both go 11.00 @ 125mph. One has a B/B, the other a S/B. Which one makes the most power?
not really the question , but the BB would do it cheaper.
In reality, they BOTH have similar power outputs, so that part of the question is a moot point. The Big Block wuold be cheaper to run.
"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids" "Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
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Re: big block VS small block
[Re: w7smallblock]
#1035667
07/25/11 09:57 PM
07/25/11 09:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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not really the question , but the BB would do it cheaper.
Not always what if I was given a 500hp small block then would the Big block be cheaper?
well not too many people get a 500hp engine dropped in their lap.
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Re: big block VS small block
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1035668
07/25/11 11:31 PM
07/25/11 11:31 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 415 Peru
cbarracuda
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 415
Peru
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Not really, the cheapest will be the one that the owner can do most of the work like head porting, valve job, the assembly, the tunning, the selection of the right parts, building the oil pan, oil pick up and so on. That would be the cheapest and, believe me, at 750 hp the small block would cost less money than a Big block because a set of W9 heads are less than half the price of a B1 head for a big block, but still both of them are Mopars so they are both ok in my book.
Last edited by cbarracuda; 07/25/11 11:33 PM.
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Re: big block VS small block
[Re: cbarracuda]
#1035669
07/26/11 04:17 AM
07/26/11 04:17 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825 Sk. Canada
RemCharger
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Sk. Canada
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Not really, the cheapest will be the one that the owner can do most of the work like head porting, valve job, the assembly, the tunning, the selection of the right parts, building the oil pan, oil pick up and so on. That would be the cheapest and, believe me, at 750 hp the small block would cost less money than a Big block because a set of W9 heads are less than half the price of a B1 head for a big block, but still both of them are Mopars so they are both ok in my book.
You could build 750 hp with old max wedge heads.
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Re: big block VS small block
[Re: cbarracuda]
#1035670
07/26/11 07:57 AM
07/26/11 07:57 AM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275 Desert Tracker
HYPER8oSoNic
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Quote:
Not really, the cheapest will be the one that the owner can do most of the work like head porting, valve job, the assembly, the tunning, the selection of the right parts, building the oil pan, oil pick up and so on. That would be the cheapest and, believe me, at 750 hp the small block would cost less money than a Big block because a set of W9 heads are less than half the price of a B1 head for a big block, but still both of them are Mopars so they are both ok in my book.
This is true for both type engines, the more work you are capable of doing yourself, the more money you $ave. One important note though, although 750 hp smallbocks MAY be cheaper to build, in some cases, you have to look at the intended usage of that motor at that power level and what type of chasssis it's going in (street/strip car, all-out drag car, circle track racer, truck, boat etc.) that also determines cost!! This is the same for the 750hp Big Block especially the RB's, since they have a tendancy to have "main cap walk" at that power level or beyond. This makes preventive measures slightly costly, by either starting out with a fresh foundation (improved design block), slick machine work/parts on the older production blocks or adding MORE cubes (stroking) to keep the rpms at a "streetable" (6500 rpm or below) level to offset the stress found at the higher rpms with that amount of hp. IMO they're both not cheap to build as the hp dial is turned up. Go cheap if you want, you'll just pay more later replacing that engine part or maybe the block.
"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids" "Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
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Re: big block VS small block
[Re: RemCharger]
#1035671
07/26/11 07:58 AM
07/26/11 07:58 AM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275 Desert Tracker
HYPER8oSoNic
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Not really, the cheapest will be the one that the owner can do most of the work like head porting, valve job, the assembly, the tunning, the selection of the right parts, building the oil pan, oil pick up and so on. That would be the cheapest and, believe me, at 750 hp the small block would cost less money than a Big block because a set of W9 heads are less than half the price of a B1 head for a big block, but still both of them are Mopars so they are both ok in my book.
You could build 750 hp with old max wedge heads.
This is true!!
"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids" "Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
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Re: big block VS small block
[Re: Sport440]
#1035672
07/26/11 09:44 AM
07/26/11 09:44 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,028 Trumbull,CT.
jim sciortino
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Lets not forget, Jim Scortino, and W7 both stated, HP is HP, with the same HP if optimized it should run the Same ET. Its Physics, right.!
Rehr/Morrison says no, I say no!
I think you might wanna reread my posts.
Two 500hp engines......engine one peaks at 5000 and is down 50hp by 5500. Engine two makes 500hp at 6000 and is down 50 hp by 7000.
I'll take engine two.
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Re: big block VS small block
[Re: jim sciortino]
#1035673
07/26/11 10:10 AM
07/26/11 10:10 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,172 Ohio
theclutcher
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Lets not forget, Jim Scortino, and W7 both stated, HP is HP, with the same HP if optimized it should run the Same ET. Its Physics, right.!
Rehr/Morrison says no, I say no!
I think you might wanna reread my posts.
Two 500hp engines......engine one peaks at 5000 and is down 50hp by 5500. Engine two makes 500hp at 6000 and is down 50 hp by 7000.
I'll take engine two.
engine # 2 here.
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Re: big block VS small block
[Re: theclutcher]
#1035674
07/26/11 10:44 AM
07/26/11 10:44 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,172 Ohio
theclutcher
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I remember, quite a while ago, it was desired to have an engine be capable of operating at 10% higher rpm than the optimum intended rpm range. I expect that percentage is somewhat higher nowadays. reason was.... better performance.
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