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Crane CCH-302-2-NC too big for LOW compression 440? #995518
05/19/11 11:14 AM
05/19/11 11:14 AM
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gts95 Offline OP
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I did a search on this site and I see there a few of you well-versed in making smogger 440 short blocks run good. Hughes and the VooDoo seem to be running favorites, but I'm wondering if this cam I've had since 1990 can work well with my setup? I've got a LOW compression 1978 440 from an RV that I'm wanting to stab into a '70 Super Bee to get it on the road for some summer cruising. This is a low-buck setup until I have the time and funds to build a serious stroker. Anyway....I have this Crane Cams CCH-302-2-NC (as stamped on the end of the cam) old school cam I've had sine 1990 when I last ran it in a '70 Coronet R/T I had. I cannot remember the specifics of why I took it out....I remember I swapped it for a Mopar Performance .509 cam. After two decades I just can't remember, but for some reason I think it was too lazy on the bottom end for the setup I was running at the time (I was only 17, so it's quite possible my tuning was way off).

At any rate, it has very low mileage, even have the lifters all still wrapped up and oiled.....would this cam at all work in a stock bottom end 1978 440? I know they have notoriously low compression, down around 8.0:1 (I don't have the heads off so I have not measured how far down in the hole the piston sits). I do not have the original cam card...but I found these specs when I Googled the cam part number. The recommendation is for much higher compression. If I have let's say some mildly ported iron 915s, how would this work? (The car has 3.55s and a 2800 stall).

Part Number: 644561 Grind Number: H-302-2 (REPLACES CCH-302-2)
Engine Identification:
Start Yr. End Yr. Make Cyl Description
1958 1978 PLYMOUTH-DODGE-CHRYSLER 8 ROUGH IDLE, PERFORMANCE USAGE, GOOD MID-RANGE HP, MILD BRACKET RACING, AUTO TRANS W/3000+ CONVERTER, 3800-4200 CRUISE RPM, 10.0 TO 11.5 COMPRESSION RATIO ADVISED. BASIC RPM 3000-6500
Engine Size Configuration
350-440 C.I. V

Valve Setting: Intake .000 Exhaust .000 HOT

Lift: Intake @Cam 336 @Valve 504 All Lifts are based
on zero lash and theoretical rocker arm ratios.
Exhaust @ Cam 352 @Valve 528
Rocker Arm Ratio 1.5

Cam Timing: TAPPET @.0044
Lift: Opens Closes ADV Duration
Intake 39 BTDC 83 ABDC 302 °
Exhaust 88 BBDC 44 ATDC 312 °

Spring Requirements: Triple Dual Outer Inner
Part Number 99893
Loads Closed 130 LBS @ 1.850 or 1 27/32
Open 318 LBS @ 1.350
Recommended RPM range with matching components
Minimum RPM 2800
Maximum RPM 6600
Valve Float 7200

Cam Timing: TAPPET @.050
Lift: Opens Closes Max Lift Duration
Intake 9 BTDC 43 ABDC 107 232 °
Exhaust 58 BBDC 4 ATDC 117 242



1970 Super Bee, WM21, 383, auto, FY1, a/c, project! 1971 Chrysler 300 2dr, U-code, console car 1980 Chrysler LeBaron LS Limited coupe 2008 Chrysler Aspen, HEMI 2011 Ram 3500 MegaCab, 6.7
Re: Crane CCH-302-2-NC too big for LOW compression 440? [Re: gts95] #995519
05/19/11 11:50 AM
05/19/11 11:50 AM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,505
God's Country Maryland
GODSCOUNTRY340 Offline
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That cam will kill that 440 even with 915 heads. The long duration will need a good 11 to 1 compression for it to work. The 915 heads will raise your compression to about 9-1, still too low.


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Re: Crane CCH-302-2-NC too big for LOW compression 440? [Re: GODSCOUNTRY340] #995520
05/19/11 10:05 PM
05/19/11 10:05 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,140
Central NC
gch Offline
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If it was a slug in a 70 440 it will be one trying to walk in salt in a smogger.
You could'nt advance that cam enough for it to run well in that motor.Summer cruising would be better with the RV cam.

Re: Crane CCH-302-2-NC too big for LOW compression 440? [Re: gch] #995521
05/19/11 11:34 PM
05/19/11 11:34 PM
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Posts: 266
Seattle Wa
PowerWagonDude Offline
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Seattle Wa
That cam is not that big. It has 230@.050 intake with .504 lift on a 112 LSA. Thats not a big cam in a 440. I just did the same buildup of an RV engine using a similar cam. Mine was 230@.050/.480 lift. I even used the crappy Tquad cast iron intake manifold. Ya you are leaving some power on the table but a 440 has power to burn. Just run the top end. Hold it if first gear longer. You have 3.55s and a 2800 stall. You can buy higher compression pistons next year. That whai im gonna do. Go for it. Its still gonna be faster than a Chevy

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Re: Crane CCH-302-2-NC too big for LOW compression 440? [Re: PowerWagonDude] #995522
05/20/11 12:17 AM
05/20/11 12:17 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 390
kentucky
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superbyrd Offline
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kentucky
slap it in and run it.
like most these threads on here,with folks asking the same question as you,looking for opinions,don't like/want the answer/opinion thats given.
threads like these should be re-worded correctly.....
"hi,i have these parts (insert part or parts on hand) i don't want to buy anything else,so,would you guys here please tell me what i want to hear,so i can throw this turd together,run it,and be happy????"
that about sums it up. it will work/run great,go for it.......

Re: Crane CCH-302-2-NC too big for LOW compression 440? [Re: gts95] #995523
05/20/11 07:12 AM
05/20/11 07:12 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 793
Utah
topbrent Offline
super stock
topbrent  Offline
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Utah
IF it were me, I would get a cam with a much tighter LSA and install it early.

You need all the cylinder pressure you can get and a tight LSA and early timing events will help generate that.

OU812 Brian at IMM engines has commented that he has very favorably used the Comp Thumpr cam in the low compression motors.
- 227/241 @.050 107LSA installed at 102

Re: Crane CCH-302-2-NC too big for LOW compression 440? [Re: topbrent] #995524
05/20/11 11:08 AM
05/20/11 11:08 AM
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Posts: 528
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gts95 Offline OP
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Quote:

IF it were me, I would get a cam with a much tighter LSA and install it early.

You need all the cylinder pressure you can get and a tight LSA and early timing events will help generate that.

OU812 Brian at IMM engines has commented that he has very favorably used the Comp Thumpr cam in the low compression motors.
- 227/241 @.050 107LSA installed at 102




This is the kind of advice I'm looking for, simply because I do not have a good handle on cam timing events. I've read some of the other threads and Hughes and Lunati Voodoo comes up quite a bit.
I guess I need to read a cam basics 101 article (plenty of those around). I was under the impression a higher LSA was better for low-compression?? Say like the Mopar Performance solid lifter ".528" cam, with a LSA of 112.


1970 Super Bee, WM21, 383, auto, FY1, a/c, project! 1971 Chrysler 300 2dr, U-code, console car 1980 Chrysler LeBaron LS Limited coupe 2008 Chrysler Aspen, HEMI 2011 Ram 3500 MegaCab, 6.7
Re: Crane CCH-302-2-NC too big for LOW compression 440? [Re: PowerWagonDude] #995525
05/20/11 01:23 PM
05/20/11 01:23 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825
Sk. Canada
RemCharger Offline
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Sk. Canada
Quote:

That cam is not that big. It has [Email]230@.050[/Email] intake with .504 lift on a 112 LSA. Thats not a big cam in a 440. I just did the same buildup of an RV engine using a similar cam. Mine was [Email]230@.050/.480[/Email] lift. I even used the crappy Tquad cast iron intake manifold. Ya you are leaving some power on the table but a 440 has power to burn. Just run the top end. Hold it if first gear longer. You have 3.55s and a 2800 stall. You can buy higher compression pistons next year. That whai im gonna do. Go for it. Its still gonna be faster than a Chevy


His cam has 20 and 30 more degrees of seat duration.... Bad news in a motor with no squish.
I agree with the .528 ,,, I put one in my lo comp 440 because of the small overlap, to help build pressure. You should go to tech archives , and find the "stock smogger 440" thread, lots of good info to read.

Re: Crane CCH-302-2-NC too big for LOW compression 440? [Re: RemCharger] #995526
05/20/11 08:15 PM
05/20/11 08:15 PM
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Columbia, CT
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moper Offline
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Columbia, CT
That cam is one of my favorites. With ported heads and 10.7:1 it made 540lbs of torque and 480hp on pump fuel on a 440. Another build with whipped 906 stock heads, '76 440 factory short block, and a 6bbl would run 12.40s spinning thru first with a 2200 convertor. Run it straight up. It won't have a ton of vacuum, but I drive it daily for 2 years in my 70 with the 6bbl on it. I love that grind on big and small blocks.


Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.






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