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Some insight from a line worker ,part 2 #9946
01/17/04 06:34 PM
01/17/04 06:34 PM
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bogusracer Offline OP
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Quote:

So far what has happened is we finally got someone here who actually worked at the plant who could tell us what the hell those inspection codes were for and if all or some got them. So can you please throw smaller stones now






Guys - let me clarify something here, I stated I have worked in an assembly plant for almost 30 years, however I did not say it was the Lynch Road Plant. I apologize if any of you got the wrong impression.

However, having been to over a dozen different assembly plants during my career, and being in a position to be associated with some of the processes and procedures concerning inspection buyoff as related to my Department's Quality Issues. I have found that most Plants have a similiar Inspection/Buyoff procedure. Therefore I feel confident about my assessment that the Punches on the Data Plates are Buyoff Stamps for Repair/Inspection Work.

I also have a theory based on the scheduling of vehicles and the reasons that the order numbers and VIN numbers can be so drastically different within the same carline. Let me elaborate:

Scheduled build date of 426 on the A12 cars.

As most of us know the Actual build Dates varied. (Could have been July or August of '69 as an example)
I would presume that as the A12 orders were consolidated and as orders were confirmed they were assigned a "Scheduled" build date of 426. This would mean that the order number was assigned at that time, but the VIN number didn't get assigned until the Actual Production of the vehicle began. What this would create is (for example)

A12 Superbee with a 426 build date and VIN # of 306999 and an order # of 922697 (actually built in July '69). (Not an actual car # just an example)

Compared to a 383 Superbee with a 626 build date and VIN # of 295555 (Earlier VIN number) and an order # 955252 (Later Order number)(actually built in June '69)(Not an actual car # just an example)

The Order Number for the A12 car is earlier yet the VIN Number is Later than the 383 car. This could have happened due to the A12 Orders being consolidated and "Batched" together and assigned the same build date. Yet not scheduled for production until all material requirements (Special Parts) were met, and build restrictions complied with.

I base this theory on my experience in scheduling Special Equipment Order (SEO) Paint Jobs through our Assembly Plant. We'll get the order and they will be scheduled ie. in February, but we may hold them until we reach a predetermined minimum number of units of the same color before they are released to production. This is done as a cost savings measure so we can "Batch Paint" the SEO paint colors. It says us money on materials and labor for paint system fill and cleaning. When you deal with a system that has a mix tank volume of 100 gallons and a Paint line volume of 75 gals. This equates to Major Cost savings doing it that way. We also require an 8 week "Lead Time" to get the actual Color produced (In our case) by DuPont. Therefore the order number isn't always sequential relative to the VIN Number car to car.

In addition there are certain "Build Restrictions" within each Dapartment in the Plant. Some are based on option content, Color etc. and these impact the volume of specific options that a plant can build per hour. So I would imagine that the A12 cars didn't go down the Assembly Line "Back to Back" even though they may have sequential VIN numbers.

I welcome any comments or Data that would confirm/dispell my theory on this.

And BTW I do have several Mopars included in my Family is an R4 Superbee A12 car. Interesting note on it is it has a build date of 426 yet the original seats had a metal tag dated (I believe) late July of 1969. This was the assembly date tag for the seats. We have the original Data Plate and the top portion of the Original Build Sheet (Incomplete and in sad shape, but we can read the VIN & Order #.) Car doesn't have any of the original drivetrain. But it's an A12 Car!!!

Have a Great Day,

Bogusracer

Last edited by JohnRR; 01/21/04 07:49 AM.
Re: What do you think of my new car? [Re: bogusracer] #9947
01/17/04 07:26 PM
01/17/04 07:26 PM
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hemicar1971 Offline
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Welcome to the board Bogasracer.Your pick of a serial number for example is to close for comfort and very well could be an A12 Super Bee (306999) because most of the other serial numbers that begin with 3069** are all A 12 Super Bees. You speak of quality in production, and I was wondering if it really existed back in 1969 in Chrysler Production with the way these car came off the assembly line.The inspection marks differ all the time some are ink stamps others are punchs others just say OK and then there are all kinds of numerical numbers or letter that belong to the inspectors in each group or at the end of the production line after roll test.Keep posting on here you insight into production is appreciated.


1971 HEMI E BODY REGISTRY
Re: What do you think of my new car? [Re: hemicar1971] #9948
01/17/04 08:06 PM
01/17/04 08:06 PM

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I second that, cool info,thanks

Re: some insight from a line worker , part 2 [Re: hemicar1971] #9949
01/17/04 08:44 PM
01/17/04 08:44 PM
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bogusracer Offline OP
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Hemicar71 -

I gather from your reply that I may have inadvertanly pegged someone's actual A12 car's VIN? If so it was inadvertant, although I thought I'd get close to a real one.

The example was however a cetain arbitrary amount of numbers from the car We own. Also the Order # I listed has a like amount altered from the car we own. I kinda wanted to see if I did hit an actual A12 VIN if the order number I guessed at would be correct. (Just a test of my theory.)

I have seen real A12 cars that have VIN's in the range you describe. Along with some in the 26xxxx range. All Cool Cars in my opinion.

Pretty interesting stuff.

Just to let you know, I'm well aware of the myriad of inspection marks/punches inspection marks etc. that were used and still are in use in the Assembly Plants. Having been on both sides of the fence, working as an Assembly Worker and in Management, I have personally worked on and and helped structure job operations on an assembly line in an Assembly Plant. I can say first hand that the myriad of differences in paint marks, inspection marks etc. are a result of several factors, ranging from parts substitution to keep the line running, to absenteeinsm with the normal worker not being on the job, to just "letting it go" without doing their job. Also included in this are mechanical problems with assembly tools, Engineering Changes that alter the build process during the model year to a host of other issues.
What I do know is that there are prescribed Engineering Assembly Documents that detail the build and location of assembly marks etc. Unfortunately they are not always followed for various reasons. Not a knock on the Workers, cause most everyone I've had the pleasure to work with are "Good People" and have done "Outstanding Work" Just a statement of what I have personally observed throughout my career.

Heck, When I was working on the Line, I sometimes Signed the roof of the cars that got a vinyl top, kinda like an "Artist" singing a painting. I did this so whoever found it some day would know I helped build the car. (I bet if the car is ever restored they'll be wondering if I was an Inspector or some "Big Shot" or something. ... LOL)

Another thing that is factual is this, the Global Market has driven the Big 3 in the USA to alter their stance on Quality. This became a matter of Survival to them throught th 80's to current date. So "Yes" the plain fact is that the Musclecars we so dearly cherish weren't assembled with an "Eye on Quality" as the vehicles produced today are. So we see more "Variation" in build on the old cars than those produced today. This in essence makes the task of Restoring a Musclecar such a "Unique Challenge". Best advice I could give to anyone restoring one, is during disassembly Document Everything with photos, tracing etc. and duplicate it during your restoration. Unless you know for certain that the assembly plant did it "This Way" if your car didn't show it that way then don't alter it to the "Accepted Norm".

Just my opinion on that.

Anyway I hope that I have something to offer within this Forum and as always, I know that my opinions may not be the same as everyone's, but I respect everyone's input to my comments/opinions either pro or con.

What I'd like to see is more Hard Data surface relative to Engineering Documents, Plant Assembly Documents etc. that would help us in our quest for knowledge on these cars. I'm sure someone out there either has that info or has access to it.

Have a Good One,

Bogusracer

Last edited by JohnRR; 01/21/04 07:56 AM.
Re: Some insight from a line worker ,part 2 [Re: bogusracer] #9950
01/21/04 03:22 PM
01/21/04 03:22 PM
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Bogasracer -

I am glad to hear your insight.

This means the carpet tag that was on the deteriorated carpet in my car may be correct, it was dated 5 5 69 which is after the 426 scheduled build date of my car. (It's a novelty thing to keep the tag)

Is there anyway to tell what the actual build date of the car was?


Who knows? The Shadow Knows! But he ain't on this fraking forum! "This restoration is a test,, It is ONLY a test, Had this been an actual Restoration I would have received instructions on what to do and where to get the MONEY!" -------------------------------
Re: Some insight from a line worker ,part 2 [Re: RapidRunner] #9951
08/30/04 03:57 PM
08/30/04 03:57 PM
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Elizabethtown, KY
6T9Hemi Offline
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Bogusracer,
Having been there, were there incidents where cars rolled off the line without certain parts due to an unexpected "out of stock" situation?
My 69 Hemi Road Runner does not have the line bracket that mounts to the top of the radiator support for the transmission cooler, neither is there a hole where the bolt would have been.


1969 340 4 Speed Swinger R4,
black vinyl, white butt stripe, 3:91

Re: Some insight from a line worker ,part 2 [Re: 6T9Hemi] #9952
08/30/04 05:45 PM
08/30/04 05:45 PM
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MuscleMopars Offline
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6T9HemiRunner,

My 69 Hemi Road Runner does not have that cooler line bracket on the radiator support either. And, there never was a hole for it.

NowCars


Thanks,
Eric
email eric@musclemopars.com
715-426-HEMI (Shop)
612-669-CARS (Cell and Texts)

Go to my Moparts "Profile" to see my web site
Re: Some insight from a line worker ,part 2 [Re: MuscleMopars] #9953
08/30/04 06:21 PM
08/30/04 06:21 PM
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ElefuntMan Offline
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I have a 68 Hemi RR, mine does not have the hole either.

1116553-Dsc07641-vi.jpg (274 downloads)
Re: Some insight from a line worker ,part 2 [Re: MuscleMopars] #9954
08/30/04 06:38 PM
08/30/04 06:38 PM
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Elizabethtown, KY
6T9Hemi Offline
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I have seen several cars with the hold down bracket screwed to the top of the radiator support. Maybe the guy that installed those had an attendance problem.


1969 340 4 Speed Swinger R4,
black vinyl, white butt stripe, 3:91

Re: Some insight from a line worker ,part 2 [Re: ElefuntMan] #9955
08/31/04 11:51 AM
08/31/04 11:51 AM
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N.C.
Nekid_A12 Offline
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Quote:

I have a 68 Hemi RR, mine does not have the hole either.




Nice car, and kickazz color.

but one thing if I may.....

PLEASE take some of your leftover paint and do the adhesive under your hood


If at first you don't succeed, try a bigger hammer.

Have Large Wooden Spoon...will stir pots <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/stirthepot.gif" alt="" />,
making friends wherever I go

Well....it's supposed to

Car #216
http://regcars.homestead.com/car216.html
Re: Some insight from a line worker ,part 2 [Re: Nekid_A12] #9956
08/31/04 06:48 PM
08/31/04 06:48 PM
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ElefuntMan Offline
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hey nekid, believe it or not the paint is original!!

The last owner did the putty job, I'll get to it ASAP!! Don't know why he did that.

1119369-Dsc07642-vi.jpg (200 downloads)
Re: Some insight from a line worker ,part 2 [Re: ElefuntMan] #9957
08/31/04 06:51 PM
08/31/04 06:51 PM
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Nekid_A12 Offline
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I'm guessing he did that cause the hood skin had released from the frame and was flapping in the wind.

But I am WAY impressed with that paint/motor/car


If at first you don't succeed, try a bigger hammer.

Have Large Wooden Spoon...will stir pots <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/stirthepot.gif" alt="" />,
making friends wherever I go

Well....it's supposed to

Car #216
http://regcars.homestead.com/car216.html
Re: Some insight from a line worker ,part 2 [Re: Nekid_A12] #9958
12/07/04 12:57 PM
12/07/04 12:57 PM
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Port Huron, Michigan
MI_Custumz Offline
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Not a line worker, but found this in a Musclecar Enthusiast issue (Jan 2005) and thought the two pics I am going to attach might be useful.

First pic is of a "Paint OK" stamp and truck weatherstrip. It's rather large so you can see the details.

1325859-paint marking.jpg (185 downloads)
Re: Some insight from a line worker ,part 2 [Re: MI_Custumz] #9959
12/07/04 12:59 PM
12/07/04 12:59 PM
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Port Huron, Michigan
MI_Custumz Offline
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Here's one of the truck mat part #. This one is large as well.

1325866-trunk mat #.jpg (313 downloads)






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