No-Start problem you've NEVER heard of.......
#992563
05/15/11 01:58 AM
05/15/11 01:58 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
OP
Striving for excellence
|
OP
Striving for excellence
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
|
The 1974 Plymouth FrankenDuster has a problem. I recently replaced the guage cluster, heater control panel and a few other things. When I tried to start the car, I got nothing. No spin from the key. I could start it by crossing the terminals on the relay though. NO power to the yellow relay wire, so I unwrapped the wiring tape to the bulkhead. Now, If I remember correctly, 1974 was the only year of the dreaded "Federal Seat Belt Interlock" starter system where the car would not start unless the belts were fastened. This added a few things to the wiring and a fender apron mounted relay/reset unit. Next to the fuseblock is a wierd blue box with 2 master wire plugs going into it. The yellow wire from the starter relay runs into the blue box. I tried using another blue box but the car still wont spin from inside. I tried another ignition switch with no change. I was finally able to get it to start and run by JUMPING a yellow 8g wire to a yellow 8g with black tracer right next to it. GREAT, now it runs but the alternator guage shows a discharge. I ran a jumper from the alternator to the + battery terminal and a handheld meter shows its charging, but the dash guage still shows a discharge. I'll still keep rooting around to see what went wrong and why, but if I turn up nothing, I could make the "dash wiring bypass" by making the alternator jumper wire a permanent change. I'd just like to know what the heck happened. Am I correct about the seat belt system being a one year only thing? If not, is this blue box found in 1975 and later cars?
|
|
|
Re: No-Start problem you've NEVER heard of.......
[Re: Kern Dog]
#992566
05/15/11 09:34 AM
05/15/11 09:34 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,757 North Dakota
6PakBee
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,757
North Dakota
|
If the ammeter shows a discharge, is is discharging. Time to trouble shoot the charging circuit. As to the seatbelt interlock, if you trace the wiring from the seatbelt relay (the one with the bypass button) you'll find all it does is add another layer of control to the starter relay. On my '74 I just pulled the plug from the seatbelt relay and jumpered the two wires that go to the starter relay at the plug.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
|
|
|
Re: No-Start problem you've NEVER heard of.......
[Re: Kern Dog]
#992573
05/16/11 01:42 AM
05/16/11 01:42 AM
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 5 St. Paul, MN
cu440da
member
|
member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 5
St. Paul, MN
|
Are you sitting in the drivers seat when you are trying to start it? Had a similar situation with a '74 Satellite Sebring Plus I had. Took me a while to figure out why it wouldnt start standing alongside the car turning key, but would start jumping the relay. There is a pressure sensor in the seat that will not allow car to start without someone in the drivers seat. Yours may have that, too.
'67 Barracuda Notchback
'05 Dodge Magnum RT
'07 Dodge Ram 2500
'00 Dodge Durango R/T
|
|
|
Re: No-Start problem you've NEVER heard of.......
[Re: cu440da]
#992574
05/16/11 02:01 AM
05/16/11 02:01 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
OP
Striving for excellence
|
OP
Striving for excellence
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
|
Thanks. When I named the car the FrankenDuster, it was certainly for a good reason. This car has pieces and parts from several other cars! The seats are from a 86 Camaro, reskinned to appear like the mid 70s Duster buckets. It had some other buckets in it when I got it in 2007. I have another 1974 Duster out back that has the fender apron reset box but NO blue box under the dash. Some '74 models had the box, some did not. I don't know if the 75 and later cars had the same setup. My dad sold new cars from '68 to 95. He used to tell me stories about the cars he sold, dealerships he'd worked, stuff like that. He sold Chevys in the mid 70s when the Feds mandated the seat belt interlock. NOBODY that we knew wore seat belts then, so this "system" was a pain in the rump for many people. My dad said the salesmen would get in a car from the lot, reach under the seat and unplug the sensor. The car would start and run, but it would still keep the "fasten seat belts" light on the dash. A local sacramento Mopar Guru also has many tales of the car business in the 70s. He had a 74 Dart towed into the dealership where he was a lead mechanic. No start, just like my car. Everything checked out and he was stumped. He got in, fastened the belts and it started each time. The lady came to get the car and minutes later, she was back in his face. "You SAID the car was fine. well, I can't get it to start!" Joe went over to the car to see that the woman had her purse on the passenger seat. As odd as it seems, the purse was heavy enough to fool the sensor into thinking that a passenger was sitting there UNbuckled. Joe buckled the pass. seat belt and the car started fine.
|
|
|
Re: No-Start problem you've NEVER heard of.......
[Re: Kern Dog]
#992577
04/09/14 09:53 AM
04/09/14 09:53 AM
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,430 St Charles MO
70Coronet500Vert
master
|
master
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,430
St Charles MO
|
HEY! 4 YEAR OLD THREAD
I am having this problem now. Following the wires adn I am going to get this damn thing out of the circuit.
No matter how responsible he may seem, never give your gun to a monkey! 1970 Coronet Vert 1972 Charger 1974 Satellite Sebring Plus Sundance 2001 Ram 4x4 2002 Intrepid 2006 300C
|
|
|
Re: No-Start problem you've NEVER heard of.......
[Re: 70Coronet500Vert]
#992578
04/09/14 11:27 AM
04/09/14 11:27 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
|
Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
|
I'm assuming you can jump the large "batt" terminal and the next to it brown wire "sol" terminal on the starter relay & it will crank. Not sure if the seat belt relay interrupts the yellow start wire power side or the NSS ground wire ground side but if it opens the power side I'd run the "st" terminal on the ign switch to the yellow wire at the "ign" terminal on the starter relay and if it interrupts the grounds side I would ground the "grn" terminal on the starter relay (which will cause it to be able to be cranked/starter in any gear), safety just sayin.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
|
|
|
Re: No-Start problem you've NEVER heard of.......
[Re: RapidRobert]
#992579
04/09/14 02:52 PM
04/09/14 02:52 PM
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,430 St Charles MO
70Coronet500Vert
master
|
master
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,430
St Charles MO
|
I have my FSM in front of me. I will follwo along. However, the wiring under the hood is terrible. I want to add MSD and clean up wiring, so this will be fun. I just want it to crank from the key before I start, so I know it was working.
No matter how responsible he may seem, never give your gun to a monkey! 1970 Coronet Vert 1972 Charger 1974 Satellite Sebring Plus Sundance 2001 Ram 4x4 2002 Intrepid 2006 300C
|
|
|
Re: No-Start problem you've NEVER heard of.......
[Re: RapidRobert]
#992581
04/10/14 07:05 AM
04/10/14 07:05 AM
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,430 St Charles MO
70Coronet500Vert
master
|
master
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,430
St Charles MO
|
i am just going to rewire like the 72 charger, I plyed with a lot of jumpers last night but no start, so, rewire like a normal car.
No matter how responsible he may seem, never give your gun to a monkey! 1970 Coronet Vert 1972 Charger 1974 Satellite Sebring Plus Sundance 2001 Ram 4x4 2002 Intrepid 2006 300C
|
|
|
|
|