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Re: Burnt cups....again...
[Re: CompWedgeEngines]
#985347
05/04/11 10:40 AM
05/04/11 10:40 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
Von
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Quote:
Von..
Throw up a picture ir two if you can. These are two totally different engines right?
Todd,
Yes, 2 different engines. Sorry no pics as I stripped the Hughes rockers and put a set of HS rockers on to see what happens..See above...
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: Burnt cups....again...
[Re: Challenger 1]
#985348
05/04/11 10:45 AM
05/04/11 10:45 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
Von
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Quote:
I believe it's gonna be a difference in cup and ball size. I bet if you look real close the ball is not fitting in the cup correctly, not enough contact area causing overheating because only a small area of contact. imo
And the only lube I would use at first start up is black moly lub.
Best to buy those 2 things(adjuster and cups) from someone like Smith Brothers so you know what you have, size and hardening. There are different ball and cup sizes.
I dont think that is the problem. They balls seem to fit in the cups very nice. I did notice with the hughes rockers the adjusters (whatever they are) the ball is down in the cup more than with the HS adjusters. The HS adjusters leave a considerable more amount of ball of the cup... Both adjusters seem to fit the cup nicely.
If the HS rockers still show problems, I'll get a new set of pushrods and adjusters from the same company.
Trying to use what I have as the pushrods are Mantons and are/were new.
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: Burnt cups....again...
[Re: flynbyu]
#985350
05/04/11 12:24 PM
05/04/11 12:24 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160
Texas
dannysbee
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Posts: 5,160
Texas
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Von could you add some lash caps to get you closer to where you need to be?
Getting old just means you were smarter than some and luckier than others.
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Re: Burnt cups....again...
[Re: flynbyu]
#985351
05/04/11 12:36 PM
05/04/11 12:36 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
Von
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Quote:
We ended up drilling the rocker shaft weep holes,problem solved....
Interesting..What size of hole did you drill?
Thanks
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: Burnt cups....again...
[Re: Von]
#985354
05/05/11 03:07 PM
05/05/11 03:07 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825
Sk. Canada
RemCharger
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Sk. Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
I thought 2 to 3 threads was ideal , if you go to 0 wouldn't the cups hit the rocker body?
Are your pushrods ball/cup or did you switch to ball ball and cups on the rockers ?
I discussed this with Dwayne a month or so ago. Basically you get the pushrod length set to where the feed hole has a straight shot at the cup...and the number of threads or lackthereof, falls where it may. I knew the pushrods Im using are a hair short, but nothing major.
Major enough that your toasting pushrods. Try getting ones that fit and get oiled.Quote:
And no, at 0 threads it wont be hitting the rocker body..
Cup pushrods, ball adjusters.
Ive stripped the Hughes rockers off, and thrown them in a box. Last night I put a set of HS rockers on, and ran the drill to see what the oiling looks like. I have tested 6 different brands of rockers over the past 8 months or so. The HS rockers are the ONLY ones that when oil is running out of the feed hole, it actually hits the screw/cup. All the others, oil would just run down the back of the rocker. I could still use a hair longer pushrod to have the relationship between the cup and feed hole ideal, but I'll run it a few miles and see what happens..........
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Re: Burnt cups....again...
[Re: RemCharger]
#985355
05/05/11 05:31 PM
05/05/11 05:31 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
Von
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Major enough that your toasting pushrods. Try getting ones that fit and get oiled.Quote:
Sorry, but I cant see .050 being the differnce between life and death..... See my previous threads about another motor I have that had pushrod lengths all over the place...None of it helped....But, I never had them set exactly as Dwayne told me too either.  As it was set up, the pushrod length was well within the parameters most people regurgitate....Thousands of motors are probably running with 1.5 threads out of the rocker...and not having a problem...But, for me it hasnt/doesnt work that east...
I do believe (and hope)the difference will be in the rockers. We shall see...
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: Burnt cups....again...
[Re: Von]
#985356
05/05/11 05:34 PM
05/05/11 05:34 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
Major enough that your toasting pushrods. Try getting ones that fit and get oiled.Quote:
Sorry, but I cant see .050 being the differnce between life and death..... See my previous threads about another motor I have that had pushrod lengths all over the place...None of it helped....But, I never had them set exactly as Dwayne told me too either. As it was set up, the pushrod length was well within the parameters most people regurgitate....Thousands of motors are probably running with 1.5 threads out of the rocker...and not having a problem...But, for me it hasnt/doesnt work that east...
I do believe (and hope)the difference will be in the rockers. We shall see...
With all due respect, I'm sure about what I said above. Hopefully the new rockers will fit your pushrods.
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Re: Burnt cups....again...
[Re: FastmOp]
#985358
05/07/11 11:48 AM
05/07/11 11:48 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
Von
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Quote:
My guess is your installing the rocker shafts wrong.
Or mix'd cup sizes. Is my next guess.
I hope your soaking them with oil during assembly. I use STP on mine when I install them.
No chance the shafts are installed wrong.....
As far as the cup sizes, certainly a possibility. I guess the difference in sizes must be in thousandths???
Last edited by Von; 05/07/11 11:49 AM.
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: Burnt cups....again...
[Re: Challenger 1]
#985359
05/07/11 11:52 AM
05/07/11 11:52 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
Von
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Quote:
With all due respect, I'm sure about what I said above. Hopefully the new rockers will fit your pushrods.
Well, I hope you are right. But, I was told the same thing on my first motor. 3 sets of pushrods later, (lengths all over the place)...no change on that motor.
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: Burnt cups....again...
[Re: joshking440]
#985361
05/07/11 03:06 PM
05/07/11 03:06 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,207
Menomonee Falls
DemonDust
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Menomonee Falls
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I've seen this at my buddies shop many times. Guys mix and match stuff. Never thinking if the ball has the right radius in relation to the cup. It looks good by eye and if you are building your engines by "looks good" or "seems to fit"... You should hang it up..  Put a radius gauge on the cup and on pushrod end, I'm willing to bet you have two different radius that don't work together..
Last edited by R5P7Duster; 05/07/11 03:12 PM.
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Re: Burnt cups....again...
[Re: joshking440]
#985362
05/08/11 11:13 PM
05/08/11 11:13 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
Von
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Quote:
Von, what kind of oil pressure do you have at an idle when the car is hot?
Plenty...65 or so in gear when hot.
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: Burnt cups....again...
[Re: perfmachst]
#985364
05/09/11 02:57 AM
05/09/11 02:57 AM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 55
Maple Ridge, BC, Canada
NitroFixx
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Posts: 55
Maple Ridge, BC, Canada
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The length of the pushrod is directly related to where the oil hole is in the rocker arm. If it is Chrysler oiling, the exact measurement is 9/32nds of an inch of adjuster showing......including the ball, +/-.050. You can tell if the rockers are drilled for Chrysler oiling if the oil hole in the rocker arm is in the bottom thread of the adjuster screw hole. Then you set the adjuster to the correct length out of the bottom of the rocker and measure for pushrod length.
If the oil hole in the rocker is lower than the bottom thread in the adjuster screw, you have to screw the adjuster screw down to line up with the hole in the rocker arm and shorten the pushrod accordingly
You can groove the rocker, groove the shaft, groove the cam, all to let more oil up there but IF the HOLE IN THE ROCKER ARM DOES NOT LINE UP WITH THE HOLE IN THE SHAFT IT WILL NOT WORK. You can force enough oil up to the top to oil the adjusters from splash, but it's still not the right way to do it.
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Re: Burnt cups....again...
[Re: NitroFixx]
#985365
05/09/11 01:23 PM
05/09/11 01:23 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
Von
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OP
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Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
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Quote:
You can tell if the rockers are drilled for Chrysler oiling if the oil hole in the rocker arm is in the bottom thread of the adjuster screw hole.
I have 4 sets of aftermarket rockers. All of them have the oil hole well below the bottom thread of the adjuster hole. Are there any aftermarket rockers that are set up for "Chrysler" oiling?
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: Burnt cups....again...
[Re: NitroFixx]
#985366
05/09/11 01:24 PM
05/09/11 01:24 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
Von
OP
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OP
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Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
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Quote:
IF the HOLE IN THE ROCKER ARM DOES NOT LINE UP WITH THE HOLE IN THE SHAFT IT WILL NOT WORK.
Which hole in the rocker and which hole on the shaft?
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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