Re: HONING WITH TRQ PlATES OVER RATED?
[Re: sshemi]
#981473
04/27/11 05:39 PM
04/27/11 05:39 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295 U.S.
moparniac
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
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I got my world block from Ray Barton and he told me they hone with torque plate and heat ran thru the block.
Mopar Performance
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Re: HONING WITH TRQ PlATES OVER RATED?
[Re: Guitar Jones]
#981474
04/27/11 07:03 PM
04/27/11 07:03 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,445 Sterling Heights, Michigan 483...
daniel_depetro
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,445
Sterling Heights, Michigan 483...
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Quote:
I mean 7 tenths. 3.9 V6 in a Dakota. Same exact specs, cam, heads, intake everything except the shortblocks. The first one was not honed with a plate. The second one was and it picked up 7 tenths and became incredibly consistent where before it wasn't. YMMV
There had to be other things. I can't believe that a simple torque plate hone would result in ~3/4 of a second gain. Something else had to be off in the first shortblock.
1969 Dodge Super Bee A12 (440 Six Pack, 4-speed, Dana 60 4.10)
1972 Plymouth Road Runner (400, 4-speed, 8.75" 3.23)
1974 Plymouth Duster 360 (360, 4-speed, 8.75" 3.23)
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Re: HONING WITH TRQ PlATES OVER RATED?
[Re: moparniac]
#981475
04/27/11 07:05 PM
04/27/11 07:05 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330 Lynchburg, VA
Leon441
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
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Done it both ways. I have even used alluminum spacers on top of the plate and the original head studs to simulate the heads best I could. I don't know any practical way to do it because you need to stroke through the end of the cylinder but buttoms up with the head bolted on would be great IMO. But, no physical way to do it that I know of.
My opinion a block run at a certain bore for a season. Then bore over .005" new pistons and then do all the tricks you can when finish honing. Even bolt the heads to the block when final sizing the guides and lap the valves. OOOOPS did I give something away.
I let an engine get away that the block was done by Diamond for the Pro stock truck exhibition. They seasoned the block with a vibration process they do after every machining process. But, this was done on Mopars nickel. They never used these three blocks. But, it was a great one for me.
Leon
Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
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Re: HONING WITH TRQ PlATES OVER RATED?
[Re: viperblue72]
#981476
04/27/11 08:04 PM
04/27/11 08:04 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,314 Charlotte, NC
LSP
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,314
Charlotte, NC
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I'd always use a plate, and same fasteners, same thread engagement, same lube, etc.. Torque plate valve jobs have been around too since the 70's that I know of.
I know most of you might only get excited about air flow numbers, but all the air flow in the world won't make power, if it doesn't stay in the cylinder to work for you.
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Re: HONING WITH TRQ PlATES OVER RATED?
[Re: LSP]
#981477
04/27/11 08:34 PM
04/27/11 08:34 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,502 SOUTH JERSEY
HEMIFRED
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,502
SOUTH JERSEY
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take a good look at the cylinder walls in as few a worn blocks. You will see that some of the previous honing cross hatch is still there. It is always directly adjacent to the head bolts.That's 100% positive proof that they pulled the cylinder out of round. A plate would create the same consditoin but it gets corrected when honed
home of the Sox and Martin Hemi Duster
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Re: HONING WITH TRQ PlATES OVER RATED?
[Re: daniel_depetro]
#981478
04/27/11 09:04 PM
04/27/11 09:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 21,066 in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 21,066
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Quote:
Quote:
I mean 7 tenths. 3.9 V6 in a Dakota. Same exact specs, cam, heads, intake everything except the shortblocks. The first one was not honed with a plate. The second one was and it picked up 7 tenths and became incredibly consistent where before it wasn't. YMMV
There had to be other things. I can't believe that a simple torque plate hone would result in ~3/4 of a second gain. Something else had to be off in the first shortblock.
It's possible but with a stocker every little thing helps, and this is a small engine. The truck could hardly run the index before, now it's consistently under and deadly consistent as well.
Made me a believer.
"Come get your wife"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion. '74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Front and rear disc and hydroboost conversion. 2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: HONING WITH TRQ PlATES OVER RATED?
[Re: jjl]
#981482
04/28/11 01:31 AM
04/28/11 01:31 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,163 Melbourne , Australia
LA360
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,163
Melbourne , Australia
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I think it is important to use the same type of head gasket also. I will say that I have to question the effectiveness of an aluminium torqueplate. I do wonder how well it simulates a cylinder head. I do know of some Comp guys that used thick cast iron plates to simulate their heavy W8 heads. AL...
Alan Jones
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Re: HONING WITH TRQ PlATES OVER RATED?
[Re: LA360]
#981486
04/28/11 02:23 PM
04/28/11 02:23 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091 Delray beach, Florida
Performance Only
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091
Delray beach, Florida
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Quote:
I think it is important to use the same type of head gasket also. I will say that I have to question the effectiveness of an aluminium torqueplate. I do wonder how well it simulates a cylinder head. I do know of some Comp guys that used thick cast iron plates to simulate their heavy W8 heads. AL...
Al, you may question the effectiveness, but i can tell you we've done extensive testing on the aluminum torque plates we manufacturer and they replicate the cylinder head extremely well. a lot more science goes in to making a proper torque plate than just hogging out some aluminum to fit a block. i'm sure many would be surprised what we went through with material types, thickness, counterbore depths etc. to get it right. there are very few blocks where a torque plate won't make a difference, and none for a mopar they i've run into. all of the factory blocks distort, even the mega blocks and R blocks.
machine shop owner and engine builder
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Re: HONING WITH TRQ PlATES OVER RATED?
[Re: Keith Black®]
#981489
04/29/11 09:44 PM
04/29/11 09:44 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675 Columbia, CT
moper
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
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I can measure the change in bore size between the bolts without the head. Especially on a small block with 4 big bolts. It's critical on a modern rebuild IMO.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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