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Which makes more power per $$? Stroker SB or big block?
#967762
04/06/11 02:07 PM
04/06/11 02:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 172
Champaign IL
LXguy
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 172
Champaign IL
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Hey:
Don't mean to start a war, but I'm at the point where I need to decide between a big block and a small block stroker for my Challenger. Of course, the car already has a small block in it, so that gives the stroker idea a bit of a break.
On the other hand, I have access to some complete late 60s 440s (that I would rebuild), so that might help. Unfortunately don't think I would be able to stroke the big block.
My goals are apparently ambitious. I want to run mid 10.50s with the car, non gutted with cal-tracs. I also want to run a streetable gear (3.55), and would like it to be fun on the street (aka torque). A buddy of mine is running mid 10s with his (ahem) Ford 408 stroker street car and a 3.55, so I cant imagine it would be too big a problem hp wise - except that the heads for small block Fords are pretty awesome by comparison to what's readily available for Mopar.
I am not real aware of what kind of real world horsepower and torque the LA strokers make. My big concern is the reasonably priced cylinder heads (LA-X, or maybe Eddies) limiting the total horsepower capability.
To be fair, I know next to nothing about Big Block heads either, so maybe they're flow limited also, and again, I'd have to buy big block swap parts and a 727 to replace my 904-unless someone knows of a good adapter setup.
Also curious about how much weight difference there would be between a small block and big block.
Thanks for any help.
Steve
1971 Dodge Dart Swinger
5.9 Magnum, built 904
ET 11.70 / 113 mph
Want to swap a Magnum into your Mopar?
www.magnumswap.com
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Re: Which makes more power per $$? Stroker SB or big block?
[Re: LXguy]
#967763
04/06/11 02:24 PM
04/06/11 02:24 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 240
Shingle Springs Ca
haddixj
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 240
Shingle Springs Ca
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I have been considering the GEN III hemi for mine with the overdrive trans for power and MPG. They can make some good power for cheepish? How much you want to spend will dictate what you can accomplish.
70 duster 25.1E,73 barracuda, 70 gran coupe, 71 cuda
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Re: Which makes more power per $$? Stroker SB or big block?
[Re: Chassisman]
#967765
04/06/11 03:14 PM
04/06/11 03:14 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,578
sweden
1Fast340
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,578
sweden
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Quote:
NO replacement for displacement.............PERIOD
vice words..unless blown,where more displacement makes even more
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Re: Which makes more power per $$? Stroker SB or big block?
[Re: Bigcube]
#967768
04/06/11 05:23 PM
04/06/11 05:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 172
Champaign IL
LXguy
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 172
Champaign IL
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I understand that a bigger motor can theoretically make more power, but that isn't actually the question I asked.
Obviously, if I could afford to build a big block stroker, that's what I would do, but I can't.
So I'm stuck between building up a big block, or a 360 stroker and making use of the small block parts I've got.
If I go with the stroker, I get to utilize a lot of small block stuff I've already got. Good headers, oil pan, dizzy, valve covers, crap like that.
If I go big block, I don't have to buy a stroker kit, but I'll need an oil pan, headers, 727, etc.
The two things are close enough that I could swing either one in a pinch, I just don't know which is likely to make more power, and is a big block going to make enough extra to offset the extra weight?
1971 Dodge Dart Swinger
5.9 Magnum, built 904
ET 11.70 / 113 mph
Want to swap a Magnum into your Mopar?
www.magnumswap.com
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Re: Which makes more power per $$? Stroker SB or big block?
[Re: LXguy]
#967769
04/06/11 05:31 PM
04/06/11 05:31 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,630
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,630
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Quote:
I understand that a bigger motor can theoretically make more power, but that isn't actually the question I asked.
Obviously, if I could afford to build a big block stroker, that's what I would do, but I can't.
So I'm stuck between building up a big block, or a 360 stroker and making use of the small block parts I've got.
If I go with the stroker, I get to utilize a lot of small block stuff I've already got. Good headers, oil pan, dizzy, valve covers, crap like that.
If I go big block, I don't have to buy a stroker kit, but I'll need an oil pan, headers, 727, etc.
The two things are close enough that I could swing either one in a pinch, I just don't know which is likely to make more power, and is a big block going to make enough extra to offset the extra weight?
In my opinion if you can't afford to buy good heads for the BB then I'd go with the SB. A low deck aluminum head, W/P and manifold BB is probably comparable to an iron head small block. Then when you add the extra weight of the 727 over the 904 I think the SB might be a better option for you. Having said that though, once you have the BB in there you can always upgrade parts later, tough call. Ultimately the BB will make more power if you want to upgrade down the road.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: Which makes more power per $$? Stroker SB or big block?
[Re: MIKES_DUSTER]
#967772
04/06/11 06:01 PM
04/06/11 06:01 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,354
ohio
HEMIDARTS
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,354
ohio
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You can make some serious HP with a S/B. Over 500HP is not hard to get. BPE on here has some really nice stroker kits! And they are very reasonable price wise. For a steel head its hard to beat the Indy LAX heads. I know that Bob George would be who i went through to get those. Between BPE rotating assembly and BG top end, you basically have a motor! 
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Re: Which makes more power per $$? Stroker SB or big block?
[Re: LXguy]
#967773
04/06/11 06:21 PM
04/06/11 06:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,840
The Swamp
Sixpak
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,840
The Swamp
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Quote:
Hey:
Don't mean to start a war, but I'm at the point where I need to decide between a big block and a small block stroker for my Challenger. Of course, the car already has a small block in it, so that gives the stroker idea a bit of a break.
On the other hand, I have access to some complete late 60s 440s (that I would rebuild), so that might help. Unfortunately don't think I would be able to stroke the big block.
My goals are apparently ambitious. I want to run mid 10.50s with the car, non gutted with cal-tracs. I also want to run a streetable gear (3.55), and would like it to be fun on the street (aka torque). A buddy of mine is running mid 10s with his (ahem) Ford 408 stroker street car and a 3.55, so I cant imagine it would be too big a problem hp wise - except that the heads for small block Fords are pretty awesome by comparison to what's readily available for Mopar.
I am not real aware of what kind of real world horsepower and torque the LA strokers make. My big concern is the reasonably priced cylinder heads (LA-X, or maybe Eddies) limiting the total horsepower capability.
To be fair, I know next to nothing about Big Block heads either, so maybe they're flow limited also, and again, I'd have to buy big block swap parts and a 727 to replace my 904-unless someone knows of a good adapter setup.
Also curious about how much weight difference there would be between a small block and big block.
Thanks for any help.
Steve
The question I'd ask is whether the SB stroker will make enough torque in a usable range (ie: street duty) to allow the 3.55 and whatever tire you settle on to be the gear to use, given the rest of your goals. I don't think there's any doubt the BB stroker can do it...then there's the power to weight ratio. A bb with the right parts ends up weighing as much as an iron head small block, but how much does the similarly lightened SB weigh? In other words, given the same lightening techniques for both motors, which has a better power to weight ratio?
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Re: Which makes more power per $$? Stroker SB or big block?
[Re: Sixpak]
#967774
04/06/11 07:28 PM
04/06/11 07:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,986
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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master
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Posts: 9,986
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Assuming a race weight of 3850, 10.50 ETs need 657 hp. Lets say you settle on a figure of 680 hp as what you want so you have a little margin. You can do that with a stroked big block with a set of ported SR heads. Check out the dyno report on a 512 built by Maximuswedges. Very street friendly combo, not hard to build or maintain. To overcome the difference in compression for street, a bigger cam or street roller cam may be needed, but you will be there with a motor that is not high strung. https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...part=1&vc=1
Last edited by gregsdart; 04/06/11 07:44 PM.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Which makes more power per $$? Stroker SB or big block?
[Re: Sixpak]
#967776
04/06/11 07:30 PM
04/06/11 07:30 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
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600 HP is easy enough.... Buddy has a SB Mopar with cast iron W2's, solid flat tappet, No dminator (950 HP) and runs hard. Has Home ported W2's Crane Gold Rockers, Indy Intake. The engine is around 416-420 cubes, has some squeeze, about 13.5-14:1 Compression dyno'd at 620 ish HP on a dyno thats known to be stingy, had to slow it down to run 10 Oh class at the Classic etc in a 3000-3100 Lbs Dart, with 10" tires, leaf springs and cal tracks.. Same engine should easily run mid 10's on the Porky Challenger. You Dont need no fancy CNC ported Indy Heads, or aluminum MP W5's etc. There was a guy on her last month that had set of W2's cheap... Like $600.. 
Last edited by Bob_Coomer; 04/06/11 07:30 PM.
[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color]
[color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
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Re: Which makes more power per $$? Stroker SB or big block?
[Re: Sixpak]
#967777
04/06/11 07:34 PM
04/06/11 07:34 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,379
Airdrie, AB
Mills
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,379
Airdrie, AB
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Besides the price of converting the car over to BB (as mentioned earlier), a 440 is the cheapest stroker motor to build IMO...and you'll always have more power/torque with the 440.
1967 Satellite, CNC Eddy Headed 500ci Street Mauler
(Dyno'ed @ 600 HP / 650 ft-lbs)
2016 Challenger Hellcat - Holy Hell
2012 Hemi Ram Sport Crew Cab
2011 Avenger, Pentastar V-6
2007 SRT-8 Charger (Dyno'ed @ 470 RWHP)
1986 Caravelle, 318, aka "Rosco", Back Road Burner!
ALL Black...Bad Boys always wear Black!
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Re: Which makes more power per $$? Stroker SB or big block?
[Re: LXguy]
#967778
04/06/11 08:25 PM
04/06/11 08:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,923
NC
440Jim
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,923
NC
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Quote:
My goals are apparently ambitious. I want to run mid 10.50s with the car, non gutted with cal-tracs. I also want to run a streetable gear (3.55
A mid 70's Challenger full street interior, etc. will weigh a lot. Depending I am thinking 3600-3800 lbs. That makes running 10.50 a lot tougher, and needs more power/torque.
IMO, a big block stroker is no more expensive than a small block stroker, and for the power level you need; I think the BB will be less expensive.
You can always sell your small block stuff to get some cash.
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Re: Which makes more power per $$? Stroker SB or big block?
[Re: 440Jim]
#967779
04/06/11 08:51 PM
04/06/11 08:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
My goals are apparently ambitious. I want to run mid 10.50s with the car, non gutted with cal-tracs. I also want to run a streetable gear (3.55
A mid 70's Challenger full street interior, etc. will weigh a lot. Depending I am thinking 3600-3800 lbs. That makes running 10.50 a lot tougher, and needs more power/torque.
IMO, a big block stroker is no more expensive than a small block stroker, and for the power level you need; I think the BB will be less expensive.
You can always sell your small block stuff to get some cash.
I missed the part that it was for a Challenger. I thought it was for his Dodge Dart Swinger in his sig, already running 11.70,s
Yep, that does change things. Leans it to the BB for sure IMO
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Re: Which makes more power per $$? Stroker SB or big block?
[Re: Sport440]
#967781
04/06/11 09:13 PM
04/06/11 09:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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200lbs weight differance between the SB/904 and the BB/727 combo. Aluminum heads on the BB only make it about 50lbs closer.
If you are stuck running a stock head then common BB and SB heads flow about the same so HP will be about the same. An easy 433 SB can be had with the BPE stuff, very close to the 440 so TQ will be almost the same minus 200# of weight over the front end that impairs handling somewhat and makes it just a little harder to hook up. If you run low gear set 1st and 2nd in the 904 it will make as much TQ at the wheels (mabey even a tad more)as the 440. Another thing is the 727 soaks up about 20 more HP than a 904. With the modern SB stroker stuff being so cheap and the car is already set up with a SB I say the choice is easy. If you could afford eddy victor CNC heads(and all the expensive stuff to go along with it) and a 512 kit for the BB then I would say go BB.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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