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Re: Balljoint swap with front rack? [Re: SLOW67] #954147
03/20/11 10:50 PM
03/20/11 10:50 PM
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Canton, Ohio
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Sport440 Offline
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Quote:

So using this theory my custom steering arms should sit outward closer to the wheel and tire to maintain the relationship with the rear axle/balljoint centerline correct? How much of a deviation from this line would be acceptable?













Racers have raced with the steering arms reversed, with Reverse ackerman and its been acceptable in the past for race cars.

But IMO thats old school and no longer acceptable.
Ive done it and it is flat out unacceptable IMO.

In a perfect setup the ackerman is 100% correct and the steering tierods and lower control arms are parralel and the same exact length.

But you cant always do that, and they dont have to be. Another helpfull link is the Longacre web sight.

www.longacreracing.com/articles/art.asp?ARTID=13

It helps with Bump steer.

The two biggest problems with mounting a rack, are addressing "Bumpsteer and Ackerman"

You have the Ackerman figured out, Your next issue will be bumpsteer. Thats not so easy to address. Since your working with imaginary lines it will be more of a trial and error education.

For a Race car, Many will overlook those problem issues of a Rack swap. As long as it goes Straight fine, Whats the problem.

I did the internal Kframe rack swap back in 96 based on a article from "Chuck Senotore" Let me tell you, Thats a Race deal only!






Last edited by Sport440; 03/20/11 11:14 PM.
Re: Balljoint swap with front rack? [Re: SLOW67] #954148
03/21/11 03:40 AM
03/21/11 03:40 AM
Joined: May 2009
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Hinterland SE Qld Aust
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SG duster Offline
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Hinterland SE Qld Aust
Quote:

everyone says if you swap spindles side to side


WHAT?? Iv never herd that one, ball joints yes but spindles no way!!

Re: Balljoint swap with front rack? [Re: SG duster] #954149
03/21/11 04:34 PM
03/21/11 04:34 PM
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Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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sixpackgut Offline
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here is a picture of what i did over the winter on my wall car. K frame weight went from i think 31# to 19#. manual gear box was 16# to a rack 10# i think these weights are right. plus i didnt even weigh the arms, drag link and other stuff. IDK if it will work yet though


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Re: Balljoint swap with front rack? [Re: sixpackgut] #954150
03/21/11 07:24 PM
03/21/11 07:24 PM
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NC
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SLOW67 Offline OP
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Did you build your own steering arms? I'd like to see more pics if you dont mind...might get some ideas

Re: Balljoint swap with front rack? [Re: sixpackgut] #954151
03/21/11 09:16 PM
03/21/11 09:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,325
Orlando Fl
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Quote:

here is a picture of what i did over the winter on my wall car. K frame weight went from i think 31# to 19#. manual gear box was 16# to a rack 10# i think these weights are right. plus i didnt even weigh the arms, drag link and other stuff. IDK if it will work yet though


I'm no expert but I'm going to say that rack will give you bump steer.. It has to long of a body which puts the inner tie rods outside of the inner pivot points.I just spent a quite bit of time studying suspensions before I started making a C5 front suspension cross member for my Challenger..

Re: Balljoint swap with front rack? [Re: SLOW67] #954152
03/21/11 09:36 PM
03/21/11 09:36 PM
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Charleston
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sixpackgut Offline
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Quote:

Did you build your own steering arms? I'd like to see more pics if you dont mind...might get some ideas




no,got them from a member here


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Re: Balljoint swap with front rack? [Re: sixpackgut] #954153
03/21/11 10:21 PM
03/21/11 10:21 PM
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SW Ohio
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Made my own. Pics tell the story.



Re: Balljoint swap with front rack? [Re: SLOW67] #954154
03/22/11 12:08 AM
03/22/11 12:08 AM
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Posts: 6,257
gulfport, ms, west mi
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Take a look at what I found on E-Bay Motors, Item #160537404813 enlarge and look for the rack pictures. looks like some thing that could be done easily by modifying the stock k- member



it's ok to butt heads, just don't do it with a butthead
Re: Balljoint swap with front rack? [Re: AAR-B4] #954155
03/22/11 12:31 AM
03/22/11 12:31 AM
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SLOW67 Offline OP
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Quote:

Made my own. Pics tell the story.







Thats real close to my cardboard mock up I made....mine will be alittle higher though to make the rack in line with the LCA at rest. I'm going to measure acouple racks this week to get an idea of which one I can use to get my inner tie rod on the rack even with the LCA pivot

Re: Balljoint swap with front rack? [Re: B G Racing] #954156
03/22/11 12:48 AM
03/22/11 12:48 AM
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SOUTH JERSEY
HEMIFRED Offline
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excluding the coil overs all the front suspension parts on my Duster except the rack are factory. The spindels are kelsey disc units the only ones that will accept the bolt pattern letting B body lower ball joint arms on and reversed. Only nneeded to be slightly bent.Stock upper and lower A arms . upper arms swapped side to side for more caster
this is the untouched spindel


one trimmed for weight loss



here's all the front suspension pics

http://s9.photobucket.com/albums/a65/HEMIFRED/DUSTER%20SUSPENSION/?start=all


home of the
Sox and Martin Hemi Duster


Re: Balljoint swap with front rack? [Re: HEMIFRED] #954157
03/22/11 12:55 AM
03/22/11 12:55 AM
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SLOW67 Offline OP
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What rack did you use?

Re: Balljoint swap with front rack? [Re: SLOW67] #954158
03/22/11 03:04 AM
03/22/11 03:04 AM
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SOUTH JERSEY
HEMIFRED Offline
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Quote:

What rack did you use?




I didn't build the front it was done by Sox & Martin's shop. PINTO rack


home of the
Sox and Martin Hemi Duster


Re: Balljoint swap with front rack? [Re: SLOW67] #954159
03/22/11 11:38 AM
03/22/11 11:38 AM
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Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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sixpackgut Offline
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Quote:

What rack did you use?




i bought a pinto rack for mine off ebay for about $100. the arms i got off a member for $100 and i bought a tie rod kit from S&W for i believe $45. i would have had to rebuild the whole front steering anyway so i think it was probably a wash on cost. bet i lost over 25 lbs off the front also


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Re: Balljoint swap with front rack? [Re: sixpackgut] #954160
03/22/11 01:50 PM
03/22/11 01:50 PM
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SLOW67 Offline OP
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I'm looking to get all the steering stuff out of the way for a future BB swap plus loose some weight in the process. I also plan on going to coilovers too when I can afford it. I figure if I spent the time and money to replace the sloppy steering box I could already have had this setup built in my parts car and just swap it all over

Re: Balljoint swap with front rack? [Re: sixpackgut] #954161
03/22/11 06:43 PM
03/22/11 06:43 PM
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Canton, Ohio
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Sport440 Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

What rack did you use?




i bought a pinto rack for mine off ebay for about $100. the arms i got off a member for $100 and i bought a tie rod kit from S&W for i believe $45. i would have had to rebuild the whole front steering anyway so i think it was probably a wash on cost. bet i lost over 25 lbs off the front also






Dont forget you will need some type of coupler shaft from the rack to the steering wheel shaft. I used two borgesion joints and a 3/4 splined shaft. I think in 96 the joints were $40 apiece and the shaft $20+ or so. And a 3/4" heim joint to tie it to the fenderwell. $20 bucks new or $5 swap meet. I think my swap was around $360 total, plus Lots of labor.

I fabbed it in 3 different times.

Once with the ball joints/steering arms flipped.
Once with the ball joints correct and fabbed steering arms.

And once with the K modified more like yours to get the Rack Back as far as it could go, right against the BB oil pan front wall.

And now with my new oil pan Im even considering moving it back more for a forth refab.

I guess I dont like to do things once.

Last edited by Sport440; 03/22/11 09:08 PM.
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