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Question about B and RB engines #939030 02/27/11 05:24 PM 02/27/11 05:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 22,900 Gabba Gabba Hey! NYC Diego (not Ted) OP Too Many Posts
Diego (not Ted) OP Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 22,900 Gabba Gabba Hey! NYC	What does "raised block" mean for the RB in comparison to the B? Why was this necessary? Otherwise, the engines are the same? Information on the Net is hard to come by, or poorly written.

Re: Question about B and RB engines [Re: Diego (not Ted)] #939031 02/27/11 05:31 PM 02/27/11 05:31 PM
Joined: Oct 2010 Posts: 606 Montana Y Yancy Derringer mopar
Yancy Derringer mopar Y Joined: Oct 2010 Posts: 606 Montana	Except for an oddball 383 made in the early sixties, all big block wedge engines are "short stroke" 361-400, and "long stroke" 413-440. In order to accomplish this, Chrysler decided to make the deck height on the RB blocks higher for the longer stroke. Very, very simple. the basic differences are that the RB crank main journals are larger, the pushrods and distributor are longer, and the intake manifold wider. B and RB pans, timing components/ cover/ water pump and heads (and rockers) interchange.

Re: Question about B and RB engines [Re: Yancy Derringer] #939032 02/27/11 05:52 PM 02/27/11 05:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 22,900 Gabba Gabba Hey! NYC Diego (not Ted) OP Too Many Posts
Diego (not Ted) OP Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 22,900 Gabba Gabba Hey! NYC	Is it common to make that modification to an engine block? I assume nothing is compromised to raise the deck height?

Re: Question about B and RB engines [Re: Diego (not Ted)] #939033 02/27/11 06:08 PM 02/27/11 06:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows? 1_WILD_RT Management Trainee
1_WILD_RT Management Trainee Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows?	GM & Ford have both got tall deck & short deck engines... It's fairly common practice... Thing is Chrysler already had a taller deck height with the B than most other manufacturers... The engineers liked the tall deck to keep the rod angles down for long term reliability.. But making longer rods & tall pistons also increases weight which limits the engines ability to rev... Which is why strokers work so well in Mopars... "The Armies of our ancestors were lucky, in that they were not trailed by a second army of pencil pushers."

Re: Question about B and RB engines [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #939034 02/27/11 06:38 PM 02/27/11 06:38 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska	Quote: Thing is Chrysler already had a taller deck height with the B than most other manufacturers... The engineers liked the tall deck to keep the rod angles down for long term reliability.. But making longer rods & tall pistons also increases weight which limits the engines ability to rev... Which is why strokers work so well in Mopars... The RB (440)deck height on each side (the V) is ~3/4" higher up/out at a 45 angle than the B. Always wondered why the excessive comp heights, yes offset grind/stroke it (RB crank/rods/B block) to a 470, w good heads/combo of parts it'll make you happy for cheap EDIT better yet use aftermarket 7.1?? Source rods Last edited by RapidRobert; 02/27/11 07:27 PM. live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: Question about B and RB engines [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #939035 02/27/11 07:25 PM 02/27/11 07:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,760 North Dakota 6PakBee I Live Here
6PakBee I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,760 North Dakota	Quote: GM & Ford have both got tall deck & short deck engines... It's fairly common practice... Thing is Chrysler already had a taller deck height with the B than most other manufacturers... The engineers liked the tall deck to keep the rod angles down for long term reliability.. But making longer rods & tall pistons also increases weight which limits the engines ability to rev... Which is why strokers work so well in Mopars... Why does the 366 Chevy have a taller deck compared to the other big blocks. Long term reliability. "We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".

Re: Question about B and RB engines [Re: 6PakBee] #939036 02/27/11 08:38 PM 02/27/11 08:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 22,900 Gabba Gabba Hey! NYC Diego (not Ted) OP Too Many Posts
Diego (not Ted) OP Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 22,900 Gabba Gabba Hey! NYC	Are "porcupine" heads and polysphere heads of the same design? Or am I confused?

Re: Question about B and RB engines [Re: Diego (not Ted)] #939037 02/27/11 08:45 PM 02/27/11 08:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows? 1_WILD_RT Management Trainee
1_WILD_RT Management Trainee Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows?	Both are canted valve motors, chamber shapes vary some but the same general idea... BTW In my experience "Porcupine" is usually used to describe Big Block Chevy... Ford's 351C, 351M, 429 all are canted valve as well.. Last edited by 1_WILD_RT; 02/27/11 08:47 PM. "The Armies of our ancestors were lucky, in that they were not trailed by a second army of pencil pushers."

Re: Question about B and RB engines [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #939038 02/27/11 08:47 PM 02/27/11 08:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 22,900 Gabba Gabba Hey! NYC Diego (not Ted) OP Too Many Posts
Diego (not Ted) OP Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 22,900 Gabba Gabba Hey! NYC	Right. But could they be considered the same head design? Or is it taking liberties to characterize them in the same breath?

Re: Question about B and RB engines [Re: Diego (not Ted)] #939039 02/27/11 08:50 PM 02/27/11 08:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows? 1_WILD_RT Management Trainee
1_WILD_RT Management Trainee Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows?	I wouldn't think so.. There's always gonna be someone that will argue a detail but I think "Canted Valve" covers it leaving room for the subtle differences... "The Armies of our ancestors were lucky, in that they were not trailed by a second army of pencil pushers."

Re: Question about B and RB engines [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #939040 02/27/11 09:00 PM 02/27/11 09:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 22,900 Gabba Gabba Hey! NYC Diego (not Ted) OP Too Many Posts
Diego (not Ted) OP Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 22,900 Gabba Gabba Hey! NYC	I've been reading about the Ball Stud Hemi and its valve configuration looks similar to the Mark IV Chevy BB. But the Poly 318 is a similar design with the staggered valves? That's where I was coming from.

Re: Question about B and RB engines [Re: Diego (not Ted)] #939041 02/28/11 01:21 AM 02/28/11 01:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows? 1_WILD_RT Management Trainee
1_WILD_RT Management Trainee Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows?	All the polys have staggered valves "The Armies of our ancestors were lucky, in that they were not trailed by a second army of pencil pushers."

Re: Question about B and RB engines [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #939042 02/28/11 01:26 AM 02/28/11 01:26 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 29,657 Hamtramck, PA A Alaskan_TA Fluffy Balladeer
Alaskan_TA Fluffy Balladeer A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 29,657 Hamtramck, PA	RB = Raised block. For an imaginary visual, take a 383 (B block) & add material to the deck, thus raising it from the crank shaft centerline.

Re: Question about B and RB engines [Re: Alaskan_TA] #939043 02/28/11 09:02 AM 02/28/11 09:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,862 the frozen wastes... Pale_Roader Swears too much
Pale_Roader Swears too much Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,862 the frozen wastes...	Quote: RB = Raised block. For an imaginary visual, take a 383 (B block) & add material to the deck, thus raising it from the crank shaft centerline. Just think ov a 3/4" head gasket on both banks...

Re: Question about B and RB engines [Re: Diego (not Ted)] #939044 02/28/11 11:36 AM 02/28/11 11:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,943 Holly/MI D Dean_Kuzluzski master
Dean_Kuzluzski master D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,943 Holly/MI	Wow! I had to check and see if I had stumbled into the General Forum by accident................ Good to see you've decided to dig a little deeper into some technical detail. Must be doing research for a write-up........ Think NOT inline valves (SBC,SBF,SBM,BBM, BBF-FE), but mulitiple angles, meaning exhaust different than the intake to optimize valve angle for the respective port. Difference from there, Cleveland, 429/460, BBC, Poly are variations of that theme with their own angle of the valves with respect to the pistontop or deck of the block. Now, if we could just get you to turn some wrenches..........that's where the real fun is. R.I.P.- Gary "Coop" Davis 02/09/68-05/13/04

Re: Question about B and RB engines [Re: Dean_Kuzluzski] #939045 02/28/11 11:53 AM 02/28/11 11:53 AM
Joined: Oct 2010 Posts: 576 Hr up from KCK 4 451 DODGE mopar
451 DODGE mopar 4 Joined: Oct 2010 Posts: 576 Hr up from KCK	In all reality its the configuration more than inches..i try to explain this to people but they dont get it.What makes a engine great for its application is the configuration more than the inches like the guy said on the 366/427 chevy..many a stud muffin drug them home from the yard thinkn they scored a hot 427..the 351w ford is a tall deck 302..like said all companys did it for various applications.. Best example i know of is the 352Fe Ford and the 360 Fe..a 360 is not just a 352 punched out..both of the same family but completly different bore/stroke..the 352 runs its @ss off and the 360(designed for trucks only..68to late 77 is a reliable pig ). This is not a low or tall deck example because the 360's tdc is bout a .500 before flush with deck and same block as 352 bout all about the combo of bore/stroke and as to poster on some engines they would alter the length of the cylinder to achieve this..(also creating a wider "V") 440's are awesome but i am hooked on my 451.revs like a 100,000mile 289. 1970 Challenger R/T clone 2010 Dodge Journey R/T black,awd,

Re: Question about B and RB engines [Re: 451 DODGE] #939046 02/28/11 01:20 PM 02/28/11 01:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,943 Holly/MI D Dean_Kuzluzski master
Dean_Kuzluzski master D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,943 Holly/MI	Yeah, Chrysler overengineered the 413/426/440 "RB" when it came to it's deck heighth. They probably figured on adding more stroke but never knew RACE piston technology (metallurgy) would lead to such short lite-weight pistons. Taller pistons means less rocking in the bore, rings lower away from heat and you could add more rings if needed. Go figure. Passenger car or lite-duty truck stuff built for longevity. Lets not even digress to ONLY 2-bolt mains and non-quench chambers. R.I.P.- Gary "Coop" Davis 02/09/68-05/13/04

Re: Question about B and RB engines [Re: Dean_Kuzluzski] #939047 02/28/11 01:44 PM 02/28/11 01:44 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 21,345 Marysville, O-H-I-O 70Cuda383 Too Many Posts
70Cuda383 Too Many Posts Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 21,345 Marysville, O-H-I-O	Since you mentioned it...the 2 bolt mains, when all the "chivvy" guys have 4 bolt mains... Doesn't the "deep skirt" of the big block that encapsulates the main caps the reason they don't need a 4 bolt main cap? all that block material on the sides of the main caps holds it in place, right? Anyway...the 440 block definitely is way taller than it needs to be! I'm running a 440 crank and rods inside my 383 block, with custom pistons that are significantly shorter, but long enough to avoid piston rocking. at .060 overbore, I'm sitting at 438 cubic inches. just .010 more and it'd be a full 440 inside a 383 block. Photobucket sucks

Re: Question about B and RB engines [Re: 70Cuda383] #939048 02/28/11 01:52 PM 02/28/11 01:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,095 A Banana Republic near you. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,095 A Banana Republic near you.	Quote: Since you mentioned it...the 2 bolt mains, when all the "chivvy" guys have 4 bolt mains... Doesn't the "deep skirt" of the big block that encapsulates the main caps the reason they don't need a 4 bolt main cap? all that block material on the sides of the main caps holds it in place, right? Anyway...the 440 block definitely is way taller than it needs to be! I'm running a 440 crank and rods inside my 383 block, with custom pistons that are significantly shorter, but long enough to avoid piston rocking. at .060 overbore, I'm sitting at 438 cubic inches. just .010 more and it'd be a full 440 inside a 383 block. The register on the side of the cap is only about .250 , the rest of the cap is not supported in anyway by the deep skirts .

Re: Question about B and RB engines [Re: 70Cuda383] #939049 02/28/11 01:59 PM 02/28/11 01:59 PM
Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,167 CT GTX MATT master
GTX MATT master Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,167 CT	Quote: Since you mentioned it...the 2 bolt mains, when all the "chivvy" guys have 4 bolt mains... Doesn't the "deep skirt" of the big block that encapsulates the main caps the reason they don't need a 4 bolt main cap? all that block material on the sides of the main caps holds it in place, right? Anyway...the 440 block definitely is way taller than it needs to be! I'm running a 440 crank and rods inside my 383 block, with custom pistons that are significantly shorter, but long enough to avoid piston rocking. at .060 overbore, I'm sitting at 438 cubic inches. just .010 more and it'd be a full 440 inside a 383 block. I think the deep skirt makes up for it by offering extra support around the crankshaft. The 4 bolt mains on a Chevrolet engine are kind of correcting a design weakness I guess you might say. 2 bolts are too weak for serious performance use because there is no skirt. Its like using extra screws to hold a wall onto the side of a house because the wall isn't part of the frame work. Im going to say that the reason our B/RB engines have 2 bolt mains is that Chrysler did not intend them to make 600+ horsepower with the use of aftermarket heads, cams, intakes, etc. The Hemi, which was designed as a race engine to be modified, has cross bolted mains which are way stronger than any four bolt main setup. The only other deep skirt engines I know of from that era is the Ford Y block and Ford FE big blocks. Considering that the first B engine was designed to propel luxury cars with ease, not really be modified for racing use, it is an extremely overbuilt design. Last edited by GTX MATT; 02/28/11 02:05 PM. Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street

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