Re: Approx. hours for a partial rotieserre resto...
[Re: DPelletier]
#935976
02/24/11 07:34 PM
02/24/11 07:34 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,582 Rust Belt, SW PA
Silver70
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Typically shops have a minimum of 250-300 hrs just for prep and paint on the exterior body, you're talking about doing the complete underside as well. You've done restoration work in the past so you should have an idea of how much time it will take to dismantle and strip the shell...
I personally think you're robbing yourself if you quote anything less then 500 hrs...
....and if Alan says 500, you should probably plan on 600! mine took 600 and I had taken the car apart and got it back as a rolling shell.
Dave
Unless a car needs a lot of panel replacement, I just don't see how I could possibly have double the hours into it. And I do all the body work by hand. No air file, don't use a da and so on... just a hand grinding for welds and a larger angle grinder and stripping discs for the paint.
Maybe I'm too critical of the time, I go in the house and grab a can of pepsi, that's 5 mins I'm not charging for
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Re: Approx. hours for a partial rotieserre resto...
[Re: Challenger 1]
#935980
02/24/11 07:52 PM
02/24/11 07:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,854 Georgetown Ontario Canada
anlauto
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I don't do body work, never have, probably never will. However I've had dozens of cars painted by several body shops over the years... This is how it was explained to me... It takes approximately 3 days to take one panel from bare metal to finished paint... That includes prepping the metal, epoxy prime, filler work, sanding, priming, block sanding, final prime, guide coat, final blocking, paint, clear coat, denibbing, polishing. That is approximatey 24 hrs labour. NOW: Most cars have 8-10 panels...2 fenders, 2 doors, 2 quarters, hood, trunk, roof, valances. Simple math: 8 X 24 = 192 / 10 X 24 = 240 In other words the average car takes 200hrs - 250hrs Now, if you're thinking that I'm still high...notice I didn't count the engine compartment, door and trunk jambs, trunk floor, any special attention to sound deadener, etc...etc...AND I haven't even considered doing anything to the bottom of the car.... I stand by my estimate of 500 hrs
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Re: Approx. hours for a partial rotieserre resto...
[Re: anlauto]
#935981
02/24/11 08:19 PM
02/24/11 08:19 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,039 INDIANA
Paul Jacobs
super stock
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super stock
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INDIANA
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500-600 hours for sure. To what extent are you going?? A basic job may be 300 hours BUT: Are you but welding everything & finishing off both sides? Are you putting lead back where it goes? Are you putting back all the proper sized spot welds? Are you mocking up everything that can change body gaps AFTER the car is assembled? Are you putting drip in the primer on the floor pan & bubbles in the floor pan where it pools? There are certain things that should be bolted on that stress the cars body/doors etc. I have no surprises me when I'm done. This stuff takes time but you get a killer job when it's finished! Plus some guys are naturally quick at some jobs, but bodywork is one thing that will come back to bite you if rushed!
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Re: Approx. hours for a partial rotieserre resto...
[Re: Paul Jacobs]
#935982
02/25/11 02:55 AM
02/25/11 02:55 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,582 Rust Belt, SW PA
Silver70
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I see where your coming from Alan. Although I think that number would be on the high side for parts that just need stripped, primed, blocked painted... but I guess as a general number that could be about right.
As far as the extend of making it original, this car is going to be more of an over restored car which the underside being shiny and not with the factory runs, over spray and so on. There were no panels replaced, just some small patched on the trunk and one quarter. As far as bolting on panels and linign everything up, yes to all that. I'm not sure I'm fast at it as much as it's been a pretty easy project compared to most. Now replacing panels and such, that I would say I can do quickly. I have as much experience doing collision work as anything and that part I always found easy.
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Re: Approx. hours for a partial rotieserre resto...
[Re: Silver70]
#935983
02/25/11 01:44 PM
02/25/11 01:44 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134 Kelowna, B.C. Canada
DPelletier
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Well the crowd has spoken and the message seems to be fairly consistent. People like Paul and Alan do this stuff every day. Any big variances you are getting are due to two things only;
- differences in scope
- differences in quality
I'm sure you are doing a quality job so any differences would be scope related. In my case my bodyshop may have spent 10-15% longer as they aren't mopar specialists and I had to do most of the research and explain it to them......but at the end of the day, I'm confident that I got what I paid for and it was well over 500 hours. Of course every car is different as is every resto.
What I'd be interested in from some of the participants on this thread is how long do you think a total restoration goes? EVERY nut, bolt, bodywork, paint, mechanical systems, machine work, sub-assembly restoration: EVERYTHING.....1000 hours? 1500?
Dave
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Re: Approx. hours for a partial rotieserre resto...
[Re: anlauto]
#935984
02/25/11 01:45 PM
02/25/11 01:45 PM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,054 Roswell, GA - near Atlanta
cloneguy
super street
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super street
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,054
Roswell, GA - near Atlanta
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Quote:
I don't do body work, never have, probably never will.
However I've had dozens of cars painted by several body shops over the years...
This is how it was explained to me...
It takes approximately 3 days to take one panel from bare metal to finished paint... That includes prepping the metal, epoxy prime, filler work, sanding, priming, block sanding, final prime, guide coat, final blocking, paint, clear coat, denibbing, polishing. That is approximatey 24 hrs labour.
NOW: Most cars have 8-10 panels...2 fenders, 2 doors, 2 quarters, hood, trunk, roof, valances.
Simple math: 8 X 24 = 192 / 10 X 24 = 240
In other words the average car takes 200hrs - 250hrs
Now, if you're thinking that I'm still high...notice I didn't count the engine compartment, door and trunk jambs, trunk floor, any special attention to sound deadener, etc...etc...AND I haven't even considered doing anything to the bottom of the car....
I stand by my estimate of 500 hrs
They just did it in 6 hours on TV a few nights ago. That must be the new benchmark. (Although that was the losing team.)
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Re: Approx. hours for a partial rotieserre resto...
[Re: DPelletier]
#935985
02/25/11 04:38 PM
02/25/11 04:38 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,060 Western New York
sixpackbee
master
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master
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Western New York
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Quote:
What I'd be interested in from some of the participants on this thread is how long do you think a total restoration goes? EVERY nut, bolt, bodywork, paint, mechanical systems, machine work, sub-assembly restoration: EVERYTHING.....1000 hours? 1500?
To me the bodywork/paint is fairly straight forward. The only caveat is the condition of the vehicle. The other stuff is way more subjective. Bolts for instance. If you by the correct bolts new from your favorite supply house and just replace upon assembly that saves time. If you are anal, as I am, and want every fastener that came off the car put back on it then the time really piles up. You have to inspect the old ones. Decide what is savable then clean them and send them out for plating. I prefer the latter even though I usually loose my ass on jobs like that. It is not just a correctness thing but a carma thing for me for a car to have as many born with parts put back on. The bolt example is just one of a bunch of the smaller things that really pile the hours/cash up in a hurry. Instruments, do you do them yourself and spend the hours or contract them out and save time but spend money. I would loosely say, if you go the anal route, and no sub contracting and all out of my or I should say one shop 2000 hours would not be out of the question. I know some White Post type guys that tell me a Duesenberg or high end MB type vehicle can get up to 5000+ hours.
Last edited by sixpackbee; 02/25/11 04:39 PM.
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Re: Approx. hours for a partial rotieserre resto...
[Re: formula_s]
#935987
02/25/11 08:34 PM
02/25/11 08:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 492 Kansas
BEINGmeISaCRIME
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2011
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Kansas
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Quote:
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Does 350 hours sound realistic? I read a site from a member here that said a typical top side resto will take about 300 hours.
Only if you let Maaco do it.
I lol'd at this.
A rotisserie will make that undercoating much easier. I had to do it from laying under the car and scraping.
Seems like heating the metal up from the backside with some form of heat and then scrape it off with a puddy knife/gasket scrapter/ect will make it easier. Whatever is left can be easily blasted off. Just my
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Re: Approx. hours for a partial rotieserre resto...
[Re: DPelletier]
#935988
02/25/11 08:48 PM
02/25/11 08:48 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,304 WI
RestoRick
top fuel
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top fuel
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WI
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One more factor not mentioned, when speaking of a turnkey type resto, is what model it is and how many options it has. There's a world of difference in hours between something like a nice complete '65 Satellite non-air, manual everything strippo vs. a '71 Cuda convertible with a/c, PS, PB, power windows, 6way seat, etc, etc... Lots of extra parts to spruce up and get functioning correctly. Also, extra or more complicated trim & brightwork adds more time.
Rick
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Re: Approx. hours for a partial rotieserre resto...
[Re: RestoRick]
#935989
02/26/11 12:15 PM
02/26/11 12:15 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,252 Sebring, Florida
Mopar Grandpa
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top fuel
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Sebring, Florida
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FWIW; I am not a paint & body man but will tell you the above estimates of manhours is extremely hard to determine due to all of the unknown factors of hidden rust, previous repairs, etc. I just had my '69 Road Runner done by a very reputable shop, wins Gold at the Mopar Nats quite often, and the final bill came out much higher than he or I were planning on. The car needed new quarters, a new hood, outer wheel wells replaced, new trunk pan & trunk extensions, work on the doors, fenders, etc. The car was structurally sound, no work to the roof, A or C pillars but it still took a lot more time than anticipated. When the shell was delivered it already had the old quarters removed, the shell had been acid dipped and hand sanded and put in epoxy primer (I did that)and yet it took 678 manhours to complete the paint and body work. The 678 manhours did not include any re-assembly other than hanging the doors, fenders, hood and trunk. Now, this was not a partial restoration, it was full blown to replicate the way the car rolled off the assembly line and it is absolutely georgeous and correct, even the spot weld replications, drips in the underbody primer, overspray, etc. I would think 400-500 hours would be pretty close depending on the extent of the work and the extent of hidden issues. I have had 2 paint/body men tell me to plan on 100 manhours for taping, painting, color sanding and buffing once it's ready to hit the paint booth so that leaves 300-400 hours for everything else, that's 10 weeks on the high side @ 40 hours per week. Just my
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Re: Approx. hours for a partial rotieserre resto...
[Re: Mopar Grandpa]
#935992
02/26/11 04:47 PM
02/26/11 04:47 PM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,054 Roswell, GA - near Atlanta
cloneguy
super street
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super street
Joined: Apr 2003
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Roswell, GA - near Atlanta
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Like you, when we die we won't be able to take anything with us. So, we figure there's no need to keep much extra on hand while we're here.
Seriously, we have average life styles in rural GA. Our overhead is next to nothing and we enjoy what we do.
We're also pretty good at what we do. We can't touch Alan when it comes to sub assembly restoration or reassembly but we fly when it comes to metal replacement, body and paint.
To clarify, I was comparing to the 678 hours you mentioned above. For $18k, we do the metal, body, paint, polish and body assembly and you do the final reassembly. Or we can do it but it's not included in the $18k price.
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Re: Approx. hours for a partial rotieserre resto...
[Re: anlauto]
#935994
02/26/11 05:46 PM
02/26/11 05:46 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,582 Rust Belt, SW PA
Silver70
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Quote:
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To clarify, I was comparing to the 678 hours you mentioned above. For $18k, we do the metal, body, paint, polish and body assembly and you do the final reassembly.
$26.55 per hour...
That'd be a raise for me
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Re: Approx. hours for a partial rotieserre resto...
[Re: anlauto]
#935995
02/26/11 09:30 PM
02/26/11 09:30 PM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,054 Roswell, GA - near Atlanta
cloneguy
super street
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super street
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,054
Roswell, GA - near Atlanta
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Quote:
Quote:
To clarify, I was comparing to the 678 hours you mentioned above. For $18k, we do the metal, body, paint, polish and body assembly and you do the final reassembly.
$26.55 per hour...
In fairness, we expect that we would be much faster than 678 hours to do the same job.
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