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Rides like a Buckboard!
#929914
02/15/11 10:57 PM
02/15/11 10:57 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 26
TN, USA
Ron TN
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 26
TN, USA
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I need some help and advice. I am looking to get my 73 Barracuda to ride respectably. Here is what I have and have done: HAVE: 73 Barracuda, small block, air, 727 TorqueFlite, 8 3/4 rear; DONE: 225/50/15 front tires on 7 inch rims, 295/50/15 rear tires on 8 inch rims; heavy duty Monroe shocks front/rear; factory front and rear sway bars; bolt in sub frame connectors; moved battery to trunk, passenger side; have stock front with older poly bushings installed (around 1990, before I owned the car); torsion bars cranked down to lower front about 2 inches; rear stock replacement (non-heavy duty) ESPO springs. The car rode rougher than I thought it should before the ESPO springs and sub-frame connectors but now it appears to be rougher. When I push down on the rear it hardly moves down, the front moves down but is starting to squeak in the right front (really getting annoying). It handles pretty good and I am OK with that but the ride is getting much. Anyone who has rode in the back seat for any length of time wants out the first chance they get. Any ideas of what I could/should do to get the best ride quality and handling out of this package? A new front subframe (Reilly) and rear coil over set up are a little more than I want to spend but I would consider it. I trust that when this car was newer it probably rode a little rough but not near what it does now. Thanks in advance for all your suggestions, help and referrals as to where to get the right parts. RonTN 
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Re: Rides like a Buckboard!
[Re: Ron TN]
#929916
02/15/11 11:56 PM
02/15/11 11:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 543
Indiana, Just Off I-70
BradD
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 543
Indiana, Just Off I-70
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E-Bodies ride like log wagons! Put 8-50lb. bags of sand in the trunk. JK
New springs= rougher ride(stiffer than worn springs)
Heavy Duty shocks= rougher ride(stiffer)
Low profile tires= rougher ride(shorter sidewall cushion)
Sub frame connectors= rougher ride(doesn't let the body flex as much)
Sway bars= rougher ride(ties the suspension together)
Poly Bushings= rougher ride(harder durometer than rubber)
Torsion bars relaxed= may be hitting rubber stops on control arm
The butt end of these cars are short and light with stiff springs. My 72 Rallye 340 Challenger still has its original leaf springs under the rear and I can hardly push the rear bumper downward.
Brad(driving a log wagon challenger since 1981)
Last edited by BradD; 02/16/11 12:00 AM.
Check out the Dorn's 69 Barracuda "Switchblade" in the Nov.2010 MCG
Check out the Dorn's refurbished 36 Ford in the Feb.2011 Street Rodder
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Re: Rides like a Buckboard!
[Re: Ron TN]
#929918
02/16/11 01:06 AM
02/16/11 01:06 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,001
s. e. pa.
calrobb2000
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,001
s. e. pa.
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hi the cuda was a performance/sport car for the 70s! not ment to have a family ride in the back seat ! only good for a short burst of fun back there . small child or dog maby ? put on 235/60 in front and 255/60 rear and lower air psi than the 50s . diffrent shocks till you find what you like ! lube the poley with silicone grease . maby you should consider something like a corronet or satilite for longer trips , orr even a c body ? 
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Re: Rides like a Buckboard!
[Re: Ron TN]
#929922
02/16/11 10:20 AM
02/16/11 10:20 AM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 309
Hampden, Maine
Procommuter
super street
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super street
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 309
Hampden, Maine
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Lowering your front end 2" probably results in your lower control arms hitting the bump stops after very little travel. You might consider some 2" drop spindles for the front. In the back I would check if your shocks are to long and bottoming out or if the pinion snubber very close to the floor pan. I don't have any experience with the shocks that you are using but you might try another brand. I have KYBs on my 73 Barracuda and it rides stiff but not so bad that people want to get out.
Wes
73 Barracuda 440 EFI 4 speed, 144.85 MPH LTA A/FSS Record Holder.
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Re: Rides like a Buckboard!
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#929923
02/16/11 11:33 AM
02/16/11 11:33 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285
West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285
West Coast, USA
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Quote:
what is the goal? you can't have it both ways..a nice ride and handle well. take your pick. I'd say the lowering of the front end 2" via the bars isn't helping. I've used KYB's, Monroes and Gabrials, none seemed any better/worse. For shocks to work well they need to travel. If you have the front end way down and the back end way up or on lowering blocks the car is going to ride like doodoo.
My '68 A-body Barracuda is definitely an exception to this thinking. Not only does it have a plush, compliant ride, but it handles great and is very predictible in it's handling nature.
You might be wondering how I obtain this holy grail of smooth ride and exceptional handling? Easy, I spent $ and added stiffer torsion bars( it's a slant 6 using the small block size bars), superstock rear springs with 1 inch lowering block (used two left side springs to keep it level), FirmFeel swaybars front & rear, FirmFeel tubular upper control arms and level 2 power steering box & tie rods, Koni shock absorbers, US Cartool subframe connectors, four wheel disc brakes and large tires.
It rides comfortably on all kinds of road surfaces and handles well enough that no one has yet to follow me through my favorite roads around this state, even at moderately spirited paces. It's no autocross champion, but it can hold it's own in the twisties and rides like an old Cadillac.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: Rides like a Buckboard!
[Re: jbc426]
#929925
02/16/11 02:42 PM
02/16/11 02:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,471
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,471
So Cal
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Quote:
Quote:
what is the goal? you can't have it both ways..a nice ride and handle well. take your pick. I'd say the lowering of the front end 2" via the bars isn't helping. I've used KYB's, Monroes and Gabrials, none seemed any better/worse. For shocks to work well they need to travel. If you have the front end way down and the back end way up or on lowering blocks the car is going to ride like doodoo.
My '68 A-body Barracuda is definitely an exception to this thinking. Not only does it have a plush, compliant ride, but it handles great and is very predictible in it's handling nature.
You might be wondering how I obtain this holy grail of smooth ride and exceptional handling? Easy, I spent $ and added stiffer torsion bars( it's a slant 6 using the small block size bars), superstock rear springs with 1 inch lowering block (used two left side springs to keep it level), FirmFeel swaybars front & rear, FirmFeel tubular upper control arms and level 2 power steering box & tie rods, Koni shock absorbers, US Cartool subframe connectors, four wheel disc brakes and large tires.
It rides comfortably on all kinds of road surfaces and handles well enough that no one has yet to follow me through my favorite roads around this state, even at moderately spirited paces. It's no autocross champion, but it can hold it's own in the twisties and rides like an old Cadillac.
What tire size do you run? The original posters 225/50/15 front tires have pretty short sidewalls and translate lots of bumps and road imperfections.
I think the O.P. may have the front lower control arms bottoming out on the frame.
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Re: Rides like a Buckboard!
[Re: autoxcuda]
#929927
02/16/11 03:43 PM
02/16/11 03:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Loosening or adjusting the ride height of the front torsion bars does NOT change the spring rate. All it does is change the starting point height of the car. BUT if the lower control arm (LCA) bumper is bottoming out on the frame, that will be a big issue.
Put some grease or something on the spot on the frame were the LCA bumper hits the frame. Drive it around and see if there is contact. Energy suspension sells a short poly bumpstop. If that doesn't work, you probably need 2" drop spindle with your stock spring rate 40 year old Torsion bars.
it doesn't change the spring rate but it does reduce the travel area. If you lower that sucka via t-bars you wil be closer to the bump stops.
If you weigh 200 lbs and stand on a 200 lbs/in coil spring it will compress 1 inch. If you put a 2 inch block on top of the coil spring and stand on it again, it will still only compress 1 inch, but you will stand 2" taller. Same rate, different height.
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Re: Rides like a Buckboard!
[Re: autoxcuda]
#929929
02/16/11 06:00 PM
02/16/11 06:00 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285
West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285
West Coast, USA
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I'm running 225 60/15's in the front and 255 60/15's in the rear. They are only radial T/A's and are not the best tires for grip by a long shot, but they do pretty well and are predictable.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: Rides like a Buckboard!
[Re: jbc426]
#929930
02/16/11 07:32 PM
02/16/11 07:32 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
Von
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
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72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: Rides like a Buckboard!
[Re: Ron TN]
#929931
02/16/11 10:34 PM
02/16/11 10:34 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 26
TN, USA
Ron TN
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 26
TN, USA
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Thanks to everyone who responded to this post. Here is what my line of thought is after all the input:
FRONT
1. Keep the tires, they are almost new and I think I can live with them
2. Dump the Monroe shocks and get some Koni's
3. Keep the original torsion bars, they appear to be good, and crank them back up (I don't believe they are bottoming out but may be); get some Magnum Force dropped spindles to get the drop I want
4. Re-bush the front end with all new poly bushings (the latest technology ones that will likely not squeak)
5. Keep the front sway bar
REAR
1. Keep the tires for the same reason as the front
2. Keep the ESPO springs since they are not heavy duty, are almost new and changing them out will probably not make much of a difference; don't think they are bottoming out, the snubber I believe is OK, although, on both counts I may be wrong; there are about 1" lowering blocks on the springs, they will come out
3. Dump the Monroe shocks and get some Koni's
4. Keep the rear sway bar (not sure that is a big contributor to the rough riding)
NEW QUESTION(s)
1. Am I on the right track for a good compromise in handling and ride?
2. Is there a big difference in handling and ride between rubber of poly bushings in the front end? If there is not much difference in ride quality with poly but the handling is better I will probably go with poly.
3. Do custom lower control arms (Firm Feel for example) and tubular upper control arms do anything for ride and are they worth it for better handling?
4. Do tubular sway bars make a difference in ride and worth it in handling?
5. There are currently poly bushings in the ESPO springs; should they be replaced with rubber?
6. I am assuming the original torsion bars, which from what I can tell are still in good condition, are worth keeping?
I think I covered everything. Thanks again for all you help and I hope others benefit from this information as well.
Ron in TN
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Re: Rides like a Buckboard!
[Re: Ron TN]
#929932
02/17/11 03:35 AM
02/17/11 03:35 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,471
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,471
So Cal
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Quote:
Thanks to everyone who responded to this post. Here is what my line of thought is after all the input:
FRONT
1. Keep the tires, they are almost new and I think I can live with them
2. Dump the Monroe shocks and get some Koni's
3. Keep the original torsion bars, they appear to be good, and crank them back up (I don't believe they are bottoming out but may be); get some Magnum Force dropped spindles to get the drop I want. Check if they are bottoming. What is the distance between the rubber bump stop and frame right now?
4. Re-bush the front end with all new poly bushings (the latest technology ones that will likely not squeak) Some handling improvement, but it's going to make more vibration and noise
5. Keep the front sway bar
REAR
1. Keep the tires for the same reason as the front
2. Keep the ESPO springs since they are not heavy duty, are almost new and changing them out will probably not make much of a difference; don't think they are bottoming out, the snubber I believe is OK, although, on both counts I may be wrong; there are about 1" lowering blocks on the springs, they will come out
3. Dump the Monroe shocks and get some Koni's
4. Keep the rear sway bar (not sure that is a big contributor to the rough riding)
NEW QUESTION(s)
1. Am I on the right track for a good compromise in handling and ride?
2. Is there a big difference in handling and ride between rubber of poly bushings in the front end? If there is not much difference in ride quality with poly but the handling is better I will probably go with poly. If you don't like the noise and vibration it has now, keep the rubber.
3. Do custom lower control arms (Firm Feel for example) and tubular upper control arms do anything for ride and are they worth it for better handling? No difference in ride. IMHO, they are worth it with higher levels of suspension mods. Not yours.
4. Do tubular sway bars make a difference in ride and worth it in handling? Nothing for ride. Only thing for handling would come from the 8 lbs weight reduction
5. There are currently poly bushings in the ESPO springs; should they be replaced with rubber? If you are looking for a softer, less noisey, less vibration ride... run rubber. I switched from rubber to poly leaf spring bushings as a seperate project with no other changes. Slightly more noise from trunk. But they flex less. So there are tradeoffs. Just like a big noisey cam that makes great power.
6. I am assuming the original torsion bars, which from what I can tell are still in good condition, are worth keeping?
I think I covered everything. Thanks again for all you help and I hope others benefit from this information as well.
Ron in TN
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Re: Rides like a Buckboard!
[Re: Ron TN]
#929933
02/17/11 04:23 AM
02/17/11 04:23 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285
West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285
West Coast, USA
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Is your pinion snubber up on the floorpan? The will cause a very rough ride.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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