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Degree a cam without a degree wheel?
#923483
02/08/11 01:37 AM
02/08/11 01:37 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
OP
Too Many Posts
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OP
Too Many Posts
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
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I know I know...quit being so cheap!!
but I have a dial indicator to measure lift at the valve, but I don't have a degree wheel. can I just make one from a paper plate or something?
afterall, the numbers on the wheel are not what's important, right? just that you have TDC properly located, right?
how would I do this without a wheel?
(I've never degree'd a cam...obviously! otherwise I'd probably have a wheel!!)
**Photobucket sucks**
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Re: Degree a cam without a degree wheel?
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#923484
02/08/11 01:43 AM
02/08/11 01:43 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
WILD BILL
Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
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Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
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The numbers are important. TDC is just a starting point. From there you verify that the cam is where its supposed to be (or where you want it) and adjust accordingly.
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Re: Degree a cam without a degree wheel?
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#923485
02/08/11 01:55 AM
02/08/11 01:55 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,213
New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,213
New York
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Well... teeth on the starter ring will give you some idea. 360 ÷ # of teeth = degrees per tooth.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Degree a cam without a degree wheel?
[Re: Sixpak]
#923492
02/08/11 08:01 AM
02/08/11 08:01 AM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,074
detroit, mi
POS Dakota
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,074
detroit, mi
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LOL I am so glad I degreed my last cam. It was like 5-6 degrees off installing it straight up. A lot of people who just "line up the dots" will never have the inclination, or thought to go back in and degree the cam properly when the motor is a lazy POS. They'll try bandaids in other areas that will never work and throw off the combo even more. Ask me how I know!  For your own hair's sake, use the degree wheel. 
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Re: Degree a cam without a degree wheel?
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#923494
02/08/11 10:56 AM
02/08/11 10:56 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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With a fair bit of work you could down load a 360* protractor and print it out and tape that to a paper plate.... bigger is better when we talk degree wheels... a 8" wheel will have .069" between each degree and a 18" will have .150 between each degree so bigger is better.... as for doing it..... you would be highly advised to degree it in.... I have seen some gears way off(really wasnt the gears, was the cam keyway)
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Re: Degree a cam without a degree wheel?
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#923495
02/08/11 12:51 PM
02/08/11 12:51 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,489
Pacifica, CA
Devilbrad
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,489
Pacifica, CA
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This worked for me on a Mag motor to at least tell me I'm close. I did this with timing cover and balancer on the engine. IIRC the cam gear has 36 teeth, crank 18. 2:1 ratio. Every tooth on the cam gear is 10 degrees of timing. Put the engine at TDC #1 intake (not compression) stroke. The balancer on Mag motors has 4 slots around it every 90 degrees. Get a tape measure or better a tapestry tape and measure from the #1 mark to the next mark counter clockwise. Cut the measurement in 1/4's and mark the balancer. Each mark is 22.5 degrees. Get your cam card, see when intake opening starts. Pull the #1 intake rocker and as you turn the crank slowly clockwise, watch the pushrod (ideally with a dial indicator, but an eye ball works too). As soon as it moves stop and see where the balancer lines up on the timing cover. The cover has ten degrees of timing marks, so you should be able to figure out if the cam is any wheres near close to opening like the card says. This worked for me when my engine wouldn't run and I found my timing set off 3 teeth. I did the math, figured out how many teeth to turn the cam gear and the engine fired right up. It's not accurate to a single degree, but if your off one tooth, it will tell you.
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Re: Degree a cam without a degree wheel?
[Re: Devilbrad]
#923496
02/08/11 01:57 PM
02/08/11 01:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,926
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,926
S.E. Michigan
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In college I was taught the "Isky split overlap method" for those situations where nothing is available, no tools and no specs, and you have no choice but to make do.
It isn't really accurate, it's only slightly better than nothing, I don't like it, but the procedure does exist if somebody would like try it.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: Degree a cam without a degree wheel?
[Re: ZIPPY]
#923497
02/08/11 02:10 PM
02/08/11 02:10 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,368
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,368
Bend,OR USA
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Quote:
In college I was taught the "Isky split overlap method" for those situations where nothing is available, no tools and no specs, and you have no choice but to make do.
It isn't really accurate, it's only slightly better than nothing, I don't like it, but the procedure does exist if somebody would like try it.
Thumperdart used that method back when  Ziipy, why don't you elaborate on that method, especially for a guy who has a dial indactor and not a degree wheel I know it but it is your post so 
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Degree a cam without a degree wheel?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#923498
02/08/11 03:49 PM
02/08/11 03:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
In college I was taught the "Isky split overlap method" for those situations where nothing is available, no tools and no specs, and you have no choice but to make do.
It isn't really accurate, it's only slightly better than nothing, I don't like it, but the procedure does exist if somebody would like try it.
Thumperdart used that method back when Ziipy, why don't you elaborate on that method, especially for a guy who has a dial indactor and not a degree wheel I know it but it is your post so
 I know it too, but its your post. If you dont remember it all I can fill in the rest mike
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Re: Degree a cam without a degree wheel?
[Re: Sport440]
#923499
02/08/11 04:13 PM
02/08/11 04:13 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
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Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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how about this, with the motor in the car, line it up dot to dot, and move the cam around till you get the most compression. all you need is a compression tester and probably a battery charger
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
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Re: Degree a cam without a degree wheel?
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#923500
02/08/11 04:42 PM
02/08/11 04:42 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,093
Long Beach, CA
Mike Swann
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,093
Long Beach, CA
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If you have an ATI balancer, they are aceptable in a pinch.
8.30's @3400 lbs
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Re: Degree a cam without a degree wheel?
[Re: sixpackgut]
#923501
02/08/11 04:50 PM
02/08/11 04:50 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,200
UK
602heavy
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,200
UK
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Quote:
how about this, with the motor in the car, line it up dot to dot, and move the cam around till you get the most compression. all you need is a compression tester and probably a battery charger
........at what point would you stop advancing centreline?
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Re: Degree a cam without a degree wheel?
[Re: 602heavy]
#923502
02/08/11 04:55 PM
02/08/11 04:55 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
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Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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Quote:
Quote:
how about this, with the motor in the car, line it up dot to dot, and move the cam around till you get the most compression. all you need is a compression tester and probably a battery charger
........at what point would you stop advancing centreline?
when you hear noises . really, how much advance comes on these timming chains? keep in mind that they are crank degrees and not cam degrees. so its only half of what the old cam bushings used to do in the old days
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
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I have seen flat top B and RB motors need the flat top pistons notched for the old Mopar Street Hemi purple shaft 284 grind 
