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Re: Do I have enough carb for my motor?
[Re: joedust451]
#906021
01/18/11 05:19 PM
01/18/11 05:19 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,161
CT
GTX MATT
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,161
CT
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If its a stock engine internally enough boost to make any power will turn it into a grenade.
Not neccessarily. They don't need much to make them move, good clutch set-up & axles/sticky tires/exhaust ect. & they can run 12s all day on a small boost. Heres a link, notice how fast the Neon runs with stock internals, & the weight too, they weigh about like a civic.
http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2884128
Yeah but thats an SRT-4 engine, which came with a turbo. I dont know what a civic has for a compression ratio but i'm sure its at least 9.5:1. We'll say that maybe it will take 7 lbs of boost safely, that might make 275 to the crank as a best cast scenario, depending on what engine they started with, so we're talking more like 225 to the wheels, not 300.
Civics are not only the butt end of our jokes, they are the butt end of jokes from the tuner crowd too, and for good reason. You can not make them fast and hold up without spending insane amounts of money. I know guys who spent 8K on an engine to run 13.50s in a 2600 lb car. Can you make them fast? Yes. But you will spend way more than you would to make a better car as fast.
The guys dropping 8K on an engine to run 13.50s could easily have bought an LT1 or LS1 GM product and done a gear swap and run faster, with more potential to improve. They also could have bought a car that came with a turbo, like a WRX, and just done bolt ons and cranked up the boost. I know the tuner cars are very capable from working on them. You can make them VERY fast. Hondas are not tuner cars though, they are just cars. With the cost involved with making them run and hold up its like guys are removing the valve cover and literally pouring money into the engines. And lets not forget, to make them really run you have to get an engine all built up to take the boost, then spend a few thousand to turbo it.
Back on topic do whatever makes it fastest. If you can't tune the Carter to come close to the times the Holley makes it run then the answer is no you don't.
Who are your kidden, they don't sink any more into there cars then we do, but obviously you must be an exspert on imports  ..
I never claimed to be an expert, and the same could be said about you as you seem to be some sort of expert. The bottom line is that Hondas are no cars to try to make run. These guys sink over 10K into an engine that they then have to turbocharge to get a super light and gutted car to run. After thats all said and done, you have a transmission and axles that dont even stand a chance holding up to the power without tons of money spent and the car is still a front wheel drive turd thats not going to hook. As I said there are import cars that are worth working on because you can make them run cheap, but Hondas aren't one of them. I know alot of guys with older cars think that Honda's are the majority import tuner cars. The race the little Civics and smoke them and think "I don't get these kids their cars are slow as could be." The Civics, for the most part, are not fast in anyway.
Im not ignoring your point so there is no need to give me a rolling eyes smiley because I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just pointing out the fact that it costs way more to make those turds run than a car that was designed to be a performance car. Can you make them run? Yes. Do many of them run hard? Absolutely not, no one wants to drop 20-30K into a Civic to run 11s.
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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Re: Do I have enough carb for my motor?
[Re: GTX MATT]
#906022
01/18/11 06:56 PM
01/18/11 06:56 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
joedust451
super gas
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super gas
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
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If your NOT disagreeing with me then what is your point  , i'm not getting it, your saying it takes TONs of $$$ to make them run 11s (thats BS), you say they are turds in a sence (thats total BS), i personally hang with some of these guys at my local track, i know whats in there cars for the most part. Do they have $$ in them, yes to a point they do, some more then others, you need to realize these cars are VERY light, & taking weight off of them is free (just like any other car), & it doesn't take much HP to make 2000 lbs. run fast. My whole point behind my reply was don't under estimate these civics. If you think there so slow, bring your whatever down here & i'll get a guy to run you at the track.
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Re: Do I have enough carb for my motor?
[Re: joedust451]
#906023
01/18/11 07:14 PM
01/18/11 07:14 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,161
CT
GTX MATT
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,161
CT
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Quote:
If your NOT disagreeing with me then what is your point , i'm not getting it, your saying it takes TONs of $$$ to make them run 11s (thats BS), you say they are turds in a sence (thats total BS), i personally hang with some of these guys at my local track, i know whats in there cars for the most part. Do they have $$ in them, yes to a point they do, some more then others, you need to realize these cars are VERY light, & taking weight off of them is free (just like any other car), & it doesn't take much HP to make 2000 lbs. run fast.
My whole point behind my reply was don't under estimate these civics. If you think there so slow, bring your whatever down here & i'll get a guy to run you at the track.
2000 lbs sounds like a very gutted, race only car. You are correct in that they can be underestimated, but not many are actually fast because the cars are not designed for performance, they are cheap economy cars, and the engines are pretty efficient to begin with so there isn't much power left to unlock. Maybe the guys you know are aware of something that no one I know is aware of, but all of the cars I know of that actually can move have alot of money in them and they dont hold up very long when they're taching 9000+ rpm.
MY point is that every Civic with a fart can isn't capable of what you're talking about. I know that YOU know that, I'm just making the point for the guys on the forum who are unfamiliar with them so that they don't get the wrong idea about what you're saying.
In the last few years I've gotten to quite a few cruise nights to hear my Mopar buddies talking about blowing the doors off of some ricer car, but they have no idea what it was. It really makes a difference. They could have raced some fart can Civic that runs 17s, they could have race one of your buddy's gutted Civics that run high 11s, they could have raced a Subaru with a turbo back and a tune that runs high 12s. They don't know the difference, to them they are all ricer cars, and I'm trying to give the guys who don't know a better understanding of whats going on. I know that you're trying to do the same but to me you're making it sound like every fart can Civic runs 11s, even though I'm sure that's not your intention.
Last edited by GTX MATT; 01/18/11 07:22 PM.
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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Re: Do I have enough carb for my motor?
[Re: GTX MATT]
#906024
01/18/11 08:38 PM
01/18/11 08:38 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
joedust451
super gas
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super gas
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
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Quote:
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If your NOT disagreeing with me then what is your point , i'm not getting it, your saying it takes TONs of $$$ to make them run 11s (thats BS), you say they are turds in a sence (thats total BS), i personally hang with some of these guys at my local track, i know whats in there cars for the most part. Do they have $$ in them, yes to a point they do, some more then others, you need to realize these cars are VERY light, & taking weight off of them is free (just like any other car), & it doesn't take much HP to make 2000 lbs. run fast.
My whole point behind my reply was don't under estimate these civics. If you think there so slow, bring your whatever down here & i'll get a guy to run you at the track.
2000 lbs sounds like a very gutted, race only car. You are correct in that they can be underestimated, but not many are actually fast because the cars are not designed for performance, they are cheap economy cars, and the engines are pretty efficient to begin with so there isn't much power left to unlock. Maybe the guys you know are aware of something that no one I know is aware of, but all of the cars I know of that actually can move have alot of money in them and they dont hold up very long when they're taching 9000+ rpm.
MY point is that every Civic with a fart can isn't capable of what you're talking about. I know that YOU know that, I'm just making the point for the guys on the forum who are unfamiliar with them so that they don't get the wrong idea about what you're saying.
In the last few years I've gotten to quite a few cruise nights to hear my Mopar buddies talking about blowing the doors off of some ricer car, but they have no idea what it was. It really makes a difference. They could have raced some fart can Civic that runs 17s, they could have race one of your buddy's gutted Civics that run high 11s, they could have raced a Subaru with a turbo back and a tune that runs high 12s. They don't know the difference, to them they are all ricer cars, and I'm trying to give the guys who don't know a better understanding of whats going on. I know that you're trying to do the same but to me you're making it sound like every fart can Civic runs 11s, even though I'm sure that's not your intention.
That was not my intention, i was only going off of what i've seen, just like ANY hot rod, there are boneheads who don't need a wrench in there hand, OR they have a very low budget (but knowledge) OR they have tons of $$ & no brains, but thats with ANY hot rod, now as i was saying, i was mainly going off his/there claim of 300 HP, sure that sounds like a low figure, which it is when trying to pull 32-3300 lbs., not 2200, & i will garuantee you thats about where these civics are in weight from the factory, Alot of these ricers that the muscle car guys are beating for the most part aren't that fast, & last but not least, if you read my earlier reply on page 1, I mentioned of my friends Civic that pulls off mid-high 10s @ 140+ WITH issues on every pass, its a 9 second car, but the track prep won't hold it on friday nights at our track, he runs stock trannys (thats the weak link), but tares them up from time to time, He did tell me there wasn't a ton of money in the car, he ran the ricer curcuit last year, he is a really cool guy, he loved my Dart, he too loves American muscle, he's thinking of building a Mopar, just doesn't know what. He helped a friend slap together a Junker Civic with spare parts & it runs in the 11s @ 115+ & the block is stock, that i do know. It is a slap together to say the least, so it can be done IF you know these cars.
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Re: Do I have enough carb for my motor?
[Re: HYPER8oSoNic]
#906026
01/19/11 01:52 AM
01/19/11 01:52 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,226
Cookeville
Chilort
Will Work For Mopars
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Will Work For Mopars
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,226
Cookeville
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Quote:
Hondas' are like the smallblock Chevy of imports.
Doesn't take much to make em' run!! 
Or too much to beat the snot out of them and then laugh a lot. Silly Honda or Chevy.
Too bad this thread got out of hand. It started good.
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Re: Do I have enough carb for my motor?
[Re: MY340]
#906027
01/19/11 08:16 AM
01/19/11 08:16 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,309
Tomorrow.
Damned67
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,309
Tomorrow.
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Back to the carb question: The debate on here regarding AFB v Holley will never end. Indeed, two of the members whose opinions I regard highly (Feets and Mr yuck) have differing opinions for you. I went through a few Holleys before switching to an AFB. The AFB trumped the Holleys, but for one simple reason: I bought a strip/'calibration' kit and learned to tune it. I never did anything to the Holleys other than twist the idle screws. That said, I've since put a 1050 dominator on my 505". Bought the Quickfuel metering blocks and spent a little time tuning it up. It's now awesome on the street. While dropping the 750 on for the race day might be the simplest/best short term solution, buy a tuning kit for the AFB and go nuts... It's all to common on here to read about someone who's new carb is 'junk' out of the box (goes for both brands/styles), all because they never spent any time tuning it. Got a buddy how used to have an Aussie 6-pack hemi. That guy would literally spend hours tuning those carbs, at idle, with fancy mercury filled tubes. That thing was always a rich running pig at anything off idle. Could never get through to him that he needed to play with the jets, or whatever those weber carbs had. Anyway, enough of my rambling, tune that sucker before shelving it. 
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Back to the issue at hand!