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...speaking of dynos, going Thursday FULL RESULTS
#890024
12/28/10 04:24 AM
12/28/10 04:24 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
67Charger
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
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I'm headed over to Bob Lambeck's place on Thursday to dyno-tune the 496 after pulling it post Silver State Classic oil-starvation due to an incorrectly set adjustable bypass. I replaced all the bearings after I found some mild signs of starvation. I also found I had insufficient chamfer clearance and most of the bearingsd had a tiny ring of copper on the outside from rubbing the fat radius. New narrow bearings with hand-clearanced edges solved that problem.
Last time I had it dyno'd was when I built it in a mad rush to make it to MATS after killing the crank at March Meet. There was no time to tune, just a break in with a bad carb, then one pull with the replacement carb. We knew it was pig rich, but had to go with it for the sake of time. After pulling 8 jet sizes out it picked up over 3 tenths.
What do you think it will make now? I won't spoil your guesses with the old numbers unless requested.
440 +.040, stroked to 496 with a 440source 4.15 kit
10.44:1 compression, 91 octane pump gas
Holley 1000HP
MP M1 single plane intake
.597/.607 257°/259° @.050 sold flat tappet
Eddie RPM, unported, port machining transitions smoothed/gasket matched
2 1/8"/3.5" TTI headers
MP distributor, 35° total
ETA: Engine dyno, not chassis
11.33 @ 118.46 on motor
10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray
Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race
Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023
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Re: ...speaking of dynos... going on Thursday
[Re: moparniac]
#890027
12/28/10 11:02 AM
12/28/10 11:02 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,953
Houston, Texas
TheOtherDodge
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,953
Houston, Texas
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570...562... WOW! I will be pretty impressed if that motor makes close to 700 hp at the crank!!!  I will guess 450 rwhp
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Re: ...speaking of dynos... going on Thursday
[Re: 2QUICK4U]
#890029
12/28/10 12:57 PM
12/28/10 12:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
67Charger
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
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should have specified "engine dyno"
11.33 @ 118.46 on motor
10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray
Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race
Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023
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Re: ...speaking of dynos... going on Thursday
[Re: Quicksilver440]
#890033
12/30/10 10:41 AM
12/30/10 10:41 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
67Charger
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
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'tis still the wee morning hours over here, and I'm loading the engine up to go. Any last guesses?
11.33 @ 118.46 on motor
10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray
Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race
Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023
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Re: ...speaking of dynos... going on Thursday
[Re: Quicksilver440]
#890038
12/31/10 02:15 AM
12/31/10 02:15 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
67Charger
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
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609.1 @ 5500
647.9 @ 4400
I'll post the average numbers in a few minutes, but it is a big, fat, flat power curve.
11.33 @ 118.46 on motor
10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray
Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race
Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023
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Re: ...speaking of dynos... going on Thursday
[Re: Quicksilver440]
#890040
12/31/10 04:17 AM
12/31/10 04:17 AM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 397
California, USA
Phil Saran
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 397
California, USA
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Can I ask ball park the cost of running your engine on Lambecks
dyno?? I assume 3 pulls.
Phil Saran
Parker, Colorado
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Re: ...speaking of dynos... going on Thursday
[Re: Phil Saran]
#890041
12/31/10 01:17 PM
12/31/10 01:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
67Charger
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
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Cost: $550 for 9 hours and 21 pulls.
Correction: Final was 609.1 @ 5700 and 647.7 @ 4500
over 600 HP from 5200 - 5700
over 600 ft.lb. from 3700 - 5200
First run was 575/604, and every run we would change 1 thing.
On 91 octane, the engine made more power each time we took timing away. It runs best at 30° total, not the 36 I was previously running.
The carb ended up wanting 7 more sizes on the primary and one less on the secondary for a final of 84/88.
Swapping the HS air bleeds from 25 to 29 gave me about 5 on the top and got rid of a rich condition past 5000.
Adding a 1" 4 hole over a 1 inch open was worth 13 HP and 9 ft.lb. over no spacers at all.
My 14x3 paper air filter cost me 10HP over no cleaner at all, a 14x3 4 ply K&N only cost me 2HP.
There is a slight surge over 5500 that couldn't be tuned out since it is a result of not enough exhaust duration to compensate for my tiny ports. Only fixed by porting or a new cam.
Further pulls revealed the engine was still running well past 6600, but power was down to 552 out there.
I'll post copied of the dyno sheets in a little while.
11.33 @ 118.46 on motor
10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray
Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race
Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023
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Re: ...speaking of dynos... going on Thursday
[Re: 67Charger]
#890042
12/31/10 01:27 PM
12/31/10 01:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,924
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,924
Weddington, N.C.
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Nice!!! Saw it late but I was gonna guess 600/600....on paper it looked very close to my old 508 Stage V/Hyd roller combo that I figued to be in the ~620 range. Guys looking for a 'default' 500" 600/600 combo need look no further  File it inthe tech archives!!
Last edited by Streetwize; 12/31/10 01:28 PM.
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Re: ...speaking of dynos... going on Thursday
[Re: 67Charger]
#890043
12/31/10 01:35 PM
12/31/10 01:35 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 8,094
Sunnyvale, CA
Jeepmon
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 8,094
Sunnyvale, CA
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Quote:
609.1 @ 5500
647.9 @ 4400
1.22HP per cube..
Are you happy?
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Re: ...speaking of dynos... going on Thursday
[Re: 67Charger]
#890045
12/31/10 01:40 PM
12/31/10 01:40 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318
State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318
State of confusion
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Quote:
Cost: $550 for 9 hours and 21 pulls.
Correction: Final was 609.1 @ 5700 and 647.7 @ 4500
over 600 HP from 5200 - 5700
over 600 ft.lb. from 3700 - 5200
First run was 575/604, and every run we would change 1 thing.
On 91 octane, the engine made more power each time we took timing away. It runs best at 30° total, not the 36 I was previously running.
The carb ended up wanting 7 more sizes on the primary and one less on the secondary for a final of 84/88.
Swapping the HS air bleeds from 25 to 29 gave me about 5 on the top and got rid of a rich condition past 5000.
Adding a 1" 4 hole over a 1 inch open was worth 13 HP and 9 ft.lb. over no spacers at all.
My 14x3 paper air filter cost me 10HP over no cleaner at all, a 14x3 4 ply K&N only cost me 2HP.
There is a slight surge over 5500 that couldn't be tuned out since it is a result of not enough exhaust duration to compensate for my tiny ports. Only fixed by porting or a new cam.
Further pulls revealed the engine was still running well past 6600, but power was down to 552 out there.
I'll post copied of the dyno sheets in a little while.
As many have stated in the past, some of these tweeks MAY or may not make the car go down the track quicker. After my chassis dyno, I needed more jet to get best et`s but hey, good numbers and good luck at the track.
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: ...speaking of dynos... going on Thursday
[Re: 67Charger]
#890046
12/31/10 02:00 PM
12/31/10 02:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Quote:
There is a slight surge over 5500 that couldn't be tuned out since it is a result of not enough exhaust duration to compensate for my tiny ports. Only fixed by porting or a new cam.
How exactly did this "surge" manifest itself? Got any dyno printouts that show the air flow data along w/ the full pull's torque & HP #s? How high did you spin it?
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Re: ...speaking of dynos... going on Thursday
[Re: BradH]
#890047
12/31/10 02:17 PM
12/31/10 02:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
67Charger
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
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Thanks all,
The surge was very audible, and the a/f ratio oscilated a fair bit. Slight variation on the otherwise smooth power curve. No intake flow data. After inspecting my cam specs we both agreed on the lack of exhaust duration. Some tunes had a more or less pronounced effect, but it was never gone.
As a rule we shot for the best averages between 4100 and 6200, which happened to be the same run as the best peaks. Some changes did give better peaks than previous runs but losses on the averages.
My scanner is on the fritz, so the result sheets will have to wait until this evening.
On the whole, I am very happy with the results.
11.33 @ 118.46 on motor
10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray
Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race
Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023
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Re: ...speaking of dynos... going on Thursday
[Re: 67Charger]
#890048
12/31/10 02:35 PM
12/31/10 02:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,987
A shed in England
Tig
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,987
A shed in England
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Quote:
Adding a 1" 4 hole over a 1 inch open was worth 13 HP and 9 ft.lb. over no spacers at all.
My 14x3 paper air filter cost me 10HP over no cleaner at all, a 14x3 4 ply K&N only cost me 2HP.
Great info Were the above numbers @ peak?
Thanks.
'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge.
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
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Re: ...speaking of dynos... going on Thursday
[Re: 67Charger]
#890050
12/31/10 04:13 PM
12/31/10 04:13 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,744
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,744
Bend,OR USA
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My 518 had a small miss or surge bewteen 5200 and 5600 RPM the last time it was on the dyno  It has never had that before with the eddy heads and any intake and carbs I have tested The last dyno session I had the CNC ported 440-1 heads on it with the same cam as before, 260 @ .050 intake side and 266 @ .050 on the exhaust using 1.64 ratio rockers  I have since switch the 440-1 heads to the 528 bracket motor and put the SR heads on the 518 motor, I'll dyno test the 528 motor with the -1 heads on it and see if it surges or misses like the 518 did  I did have a set of dyno headers that where a little smaller on the exhaust ports than the heads are I do have a seto hedman heades made for the Indy -1 keads that I will use on the next dyno tets, they where in the car nad I was to lazy to remove them for that dyno test, stupid me  I'll post the results, probally retest it late in January, weather, time and money allowing  don't we love dyno testing  Thumper is correct as far as what works best on the dyno, engine or chassis dynos, doesn't always get the best results in the car at the track or on the road  My message is to test, test and test some more once the motor is in the car and being raced Congratulations on the results
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: ...speaking of dynos... going on Thursday
[Re: 67Charger]
#890052
12/31/10 05:12 PM
12/31/10 05:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Quote:
The surge was very audible, and the a/f ratio oscilated a fair bit. Slight variation on the otherwise smooth power curve. No intake flow data. After inspecting my cam specs we both agreed on the lack of exhaust duration. Some tunes had a more or less pronounced effect, but it was never gone.
Not being there, this is kind of a s.w.a.g., but that sounds more like you got into valve train instability from about 5500 on up, not an indication of insufficient exhaust duration.
It looks like you're running some fairly aggressive solid flat-tappet lobes and those things will start to act up at high(er) RPM w/o a fairly stiff spring load. What sort of springs do you have and what are they set up for closed & open pressures?
I don't know if you can make the same interpetation from A/F ratio fluctuation, but when the measured air flow #s start showing fluctuations above a certain RPM, that can be a sign of the valve train losing control.
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Re: ...speaking of dynos... going on Thursday
[Re: 67Charger]
#890054
12/31/10 06:10 PM
12/31/10 06:10 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Thanks all,
The surge was very audible, and the a/f ratio oscilated a fair bit. Slight variation on the otherwise smooth power curve. No intake flow data. After inspecting my cam specs we both agreed on the lack of exhaust duration. Some tunes had a more or less pronounced effect, but it was never gone.
As a rule we shot for the best averages between 4100 and 6200, which happened to be the same run as the best peaks. Some changes did give better peaks than previous runs but losses on the averages.
My scanner is on the fritz, so the result sheets will have to wait until this evening.
On the whole, I am very happy with the results.
Nice job.... could you change the RPM of the surge
or did it start at the same point each run(even with
added fuel.... if you couldnt change the rpm I would
think valve train also
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Re: ...speaking of dynos... going on Thursday
[Re: BradH]
#890055
12/31/10 06:38 PM
12/31/10 06:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
67Charger
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
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Quote:
Quote:
Adding a 1" 4 hole over a 1 inch open was worth 13 HP and 9 ft.lb. over no spacers at all.
My 14x3 paper air filter cost me 10HP over no cleaner at all, a 14x3 4 ply K&N only cost me 2HP.
Great info Were the above numbers @ peak?
Thanks.
...that was at each peak. I didn't run the whole chart looking for the biggest difference, but not a bad idea to do.
Quote:
Are you saying you stacked a 1" tapered over a 1" open? Will that fit under the hood?
Yes, that's what I meant, and no, I have to use my other hood with the scoop.
Quote:
Quote:
The surge was very audible, and the a/f ratio oscilated a fair bit. Slight variation on the otherwise smooth power curve. No intake flow data. After inspecting my cam specs we both agreed on the lack of exhaust duration. Some tunes had a more or less pronounced effect, but it was never gone.
Not being there, this is kind of a s.w.a.g., but that sounds more like you got into valve train instability from about 5500 on up, not an indication of insufficient exhaust duration.
It looks like you're running some fairly aggressive solid flat-tappet lobes and those things will start to act up at high(er) RPM w/o a fairly stiff spring load. What sort of springs do you have and what are they set up for closed & open pressures?
I don't know if you can make the same interpetation from A/F ratio fluctuation, but when the measured air flow #s start showing fluctuations above a certain RPM, that can be a sign of the valve train losing control.
The springs are COMP 928's or 927's, I'll have to check and get back to you on the number and specs. I never measured the actual installed pressures, just the calculated numbers using my measured heights and the listed specs.
Quote:
Thanks for posting.
What carb are you running?
Holley 1000HP, List 80513-1
11.33 @ 118.46 on motor
10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray
Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race
Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023
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Re: ...speaking of dynos, going Thursday FULL RESULTS
[Re: 67Charger]
#890056
01/01/11 01:12 AM
01/01/11 01:12 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 793
Utah
topbrent
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 793
Utah
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Quote:
67Charger:
440 +.040, stroked to 496 with a 440source 4.15 kit
10.44:1 compression, 91 octane pump gas
Holley 1000HP
MP M1 single plane intake
.597/.607 257°/259° @.050 solid flat tappet
Eddie RPM heads, unported, port machining transitions smoothed/gasket matched
2 1/8"/3.5" TTI headers
MP distributor, 35° total
Final was 609.1 @ 5700 and 647.7 @ 4500
- over 600 HP from 5200 - 5700
- over 600 ft.lb. from 3700 - 5200
Nice results.
- What is the lobe separation on that cam?
- Is the cam installed advanced?
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Re: ...speaking of dynos, going Thursday FULL RESULTS
[Re: viperblue72]
#890058
01/04/11 06:26 AM
01/04/11 06:26 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
67Charger
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
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11.33 @ 118.46 on motor
10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray
Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race
Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023
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Re: ...speaking of dynos, going Thursday FULL RESULTS
[Re: BradH]
#890060
01/04/11 01:52 PM
01/04/11 01:52 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,058
bigfork mn
dragram440
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,058
bigfork mn
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That is sweet!! It gives me a good idea of what my charger makes for power. How much does your car weigh? Is this the same combo as is your signature e.t's? What gear and converter are you running? What 60' times are you running?
Last edited by dragram440; 01/04/11 01:54 PM.
67' charger 499 RB
10.57 at 127
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Re: ...speaking of dynos, going Thursday FULL RESULTS
[Re: dragram440]
#890061
01/04/11 02:42 PM
01/04/11 02:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
67Charger
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
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Yes, it is the same setup, but it was pre-tuning. I just picked up 34 HP and 34 ft.lb over those numbers. Car is 4000# with me. 4.10's in a Dana and a 8" PTC stalling at 5000. The numbers:  Curves:  A/F: not the best, but it made most power and we were out of time. Averaged 13.4, dipped to 12.6 at about 5700. Adding more fuel to the secondaries lost power. 
11.33 @ 118.46 on motor
10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray
Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race
Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023
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Re: ...speaking of dynos, going Thursday FULL RESULTS
[Re: 67Charger]
#890062
01/04/11 03:10 PM
01/04/11 03:10 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,058
bigfork mn
dragram440
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,058
bigfork mn
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Looks like a good combo. A little head work and I bet it would really wake it up. Those Eddy heads obviously work pretty good out of box. It is a similar combo to mine but mine is 12.5-1 comp. solid roller cam stage vi heads worked over m1 intake 3.91 gears 5000 8" coan converter 3800 lbs. no dyno numbers.
67' charger 499 RB
10.57 at 127
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Re: ...speaking of dynos, going Thursday FULL RESULTS
[Re: earthmover]
#890064
01/04/11 04:06 PM
01/04/11 04:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
67Charger
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
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I beleive it is RATED at 291@.600, but I forget exactly. I also think it is a bit optomistic.
11.33 @ 118.46 on motor
10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray
Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race
Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023
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Re: ...speaking of dynos, going Thursday FULL RESULTS
[Re: tboomer]
#890066
01/04/11 04:23 PM
01/04/11 04:23 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 760
Texas
TexasStroker
mopar addict
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mopar addict
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 760
Texas
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Re: ...speaking of dynos, going Thursday FULL RESULTS
[Re: 67Charger]
#890068
01/04/11 06:09 PM
01/04/11 06:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,766
Central Valley, CA.
Quicksilver440
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,766
Central Valley, CA.
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Quote:
I beleive it is RATED at [Email]291@.600[/Email], but I forget exactly. I also think it is a bit optomistic.
Yep...I think most people are seeing about 275@.600 out of the box....by they advertise 290 or so.
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Re: ...speaking of dynos, going Thursday FULL RESULTS
[Re: 67Charger]
#890069
01/17/11 10:44 PM
01/17/11 10:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,539
So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,539
So. Burlington, Vt.
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i'll throw my .02  about the surge......IMO....it aint the exhaust duration. it sounds like the dyno load valve was reaching the end of its travel at the upper end of the pull. this is often an issue with an SF dyno when you have a large cube/high torque motor and try and make pulls from a relatively low starting rpm, and try to make pulls that extend over 2500rpm. the absorber isnt that efficient at lower rpms, so you need to run a lot of water through it to hold the load. as the rpm rises, the efficiency rises very quickly, and the load valve has to open way up to get rid of that extra water, and you run out of travel on the valve at a reasonably low rpm. if you start a few hundred rpm higher(where the absorber is more efficient), you can restrict the inlet water flow, which will generally allow you to run to a noticably higher rpm before the servo valve gets near the end of its travel. if it wasnt a load control issue, then my vote would be for some sort of valvetrain dynamic issue(looking at how steeply the TQ curve falls off the last few hundred rpm). in any case....those are quite good results from that basic combo.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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