Re: mopar 590 cam.; what CR do i need to go with it?
[Re: S/ST 3040]
#889833
12/28/10 12:26 AM
12/28/10 12:26 AM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 784 Liverpool, NY
SILVER67
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 784
Liverpool, NY
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Quote:
I know of a few iron head 440s that have run high 10 to low 11s with the 312/590 and roughly 10:1
I'm sure they had 8" converters but, no idea on the stall speed. B and E bodies too.
How much rear gear?
Michael
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Re: mopar 590 cam.; what CR do i need to go with it?
[Re: SILVER67]
#889834
12/28/10 12:40 AM
12/28/10 12:40 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,595 On the south side of Nowhere
S/ST 3040
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,595
On the south side of Nowhere
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Quote:
Quote:
I know of a few iron head 440s that have run high 10 to low 11s with the 312/590 and roughly 10:1
I'm sure they had 8" converters but, no idea on the stall speed. B and E bodies too.
How much rear gear?
Michael
IIRC, the 69 Charger was 30" tire and 4.56
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Re: mopar 590 cam.; what CR do i need to go with it?
[Re: SILVER67]
#889836
12/28/10 12:59 AM
12/28/10 12:59 AM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 622 ct
jkgtx
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 622
ct
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ran one in my car years ago 440 11-1 trws 11.66-11.80s 3850 race weight 1.65-66 60fts
[b] [color:"red"] 67 GTX 440 twin turbo efi 10.72 128 3900lb 3.55
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Re: mopar 590 cam.; what CR do i need to go with it?
[Re: jkgtx]
#889837
12/28/10 01:10 AM
12/28/10 01:10 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 554 Kentucky
clovis
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 554
Kentucky
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I have a 10.5:1 906 headed 451 (400) that went 10.75 at 3300lbs with the 590. With more converter(4200) 10.60's were well within reach.
'75 Plymouth Duster Phase I 451 906/590/2-660 10.75/126 Phase II 451 Stage VI/590/1050 9.82/135 Phase III 383 906/Victor-Pump gas 11.30/119
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"
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Re: mopar 590 cam.; what CR do i need to go with it?
[Re: shoebox]
#889839
12/28/10 02:36 AM
12/28/10 02:36 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293 Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
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Its going to be a pig with that cam. Sure it will run, and probably run decent. But a smaller cam will run and idle much better. That cam was ment for a all out race application. 5K+ converter, race weight car, 12-13:1 compression, and spin the engine 6300+ With a engine and compression near 10:1 you would like the 557 MP cam much better.
[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color] [color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
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Re: mopar 590 cam.; what CR do i need to go with it?
[Re: Bob_Coomer]
#889840
12/28/10 03:11 AM
12/28/10 03:11 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 554 Kentucky
clovis
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 554
Kentucky
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I ran a 10.84 with a Comp 529/543 250/256 108 lsa, with the exact same set-up I ran the 10.75 with the 590. So to Bob's point, it will run quicker & faster but you will have to spin it to do it. I could run 10.80's shifting at 5800 with the old cam, but I had to spin 6600 to get the 10.75. So if you decide to go the 590 route be sure to check your spring pressures, retainers and locks, things like to move around at the higher rpms - dropped valves have a fun rating of -8. BTW I have my old cam for sale if you are interested.
'75 Plymouth Duster Phase I 451 906/590/2-660 10.75/126 Phase II 451 Stage VI/590/1050 9.82/135 Phase III 383 906/Victor-Pump gas 11.30/119
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"
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Re: mopar 590 cam.; what CR do i need to go with it?
[Re: gregsdart]
#889844
12/28/10 11:01 AM
12/28/10 11:01 AM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 808 mckinney texas
shoebox
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 808
mckinney texas
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Quote:
Quote:
I have a 10.5:1 906 headed 451 (400) that went 10.75 at 3300lbs with the 590. With more converter(4200) 10.60's were well within reach.
Two buddys of mine have similar results with the 590, both running low elevens with 440 cube motors originally with iron heads, both in 3800 pound cars. Both of these motors had poor quench and 10.5 compression. Mopar did drag strip tests on all of their cams in the eightys, starting with the smallest cam ,a mp hemi grind and ending with the 590. All testing was done with the same car, a 400 bb motor in a duster. The car picked up over a tenth plus at each cam change with the 590 being the fastest. And that was with a 400 cube low compression motor. For my $$ I would run the 590 and degree it in as early as it likes. I might also try a smaller carb like an 850.
where could i find that article? id love to read that one!
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Re: mopar 590 cam.; what CR do i need to go with it?
[Re: Bob_Coomer]
#889848
12/28/10 12:53 PM
12/28/10 12:53 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319 Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
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Quote:
Its going to be a pig with that cam. Sure it will run, and probably run decent. But a smaller cam will run and idle much better. That cam was ment for a all out race application. 5K+ converter, race weight car, 12-13:1 compression, and spin the engine 6300+ With a engine and compression near 10:1 you would like the 557 MP cam much better.
I run an Engle cam real similar to the Ultradyne you're describing in my 451 (assuming 251* @ .050 / .578 lift on 108 cl). My motor is a zero-deck, .044 quench build @ 10.3:1 w/ Stealths and a 35k converter. I feel I have plenty of cam, to the point where I have other areas that need to catch up to the potential of the cam. I don't think you'll be any faster with the .590, but I do think it will be much more difficult to tune & deal with. I think the UD 251 would be MUCH more snappy / crisp down low, and won't give away anything up top, as @ 10:1, you don't have enough compression to make use of the extra duration the .590 is offering. (I guess that was the OP question, wasn't it )
Last edited by GEnsrud; 12/28/10 01:29 PM.
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Re: mopar 590 cam.; what CR do i need to go with it?
[Re: shoebox]
#889849
12/28/10 12:57 PM
12/28/10 12:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,932 NC
440Jim
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,932
NC
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Quote:
i think im about 10.0CR now.
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440 2295s 070 in the hole 260cfm at 600 452s small valves
Gus, I have a feeling the 0.590" cam might like more compression ratio than you have. What is the combustion chamber size on your set of 452 heads? They vary a lot.
If the heads are 90cc, 3cc valve reliefs?, and 0.070" pistons down the hole, your actual CR could be as low as mid 8's. Get all that checked before putting a long duration cam in it.
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Re: mopar 590 cam.; what CR do i need to go with it?
[Re: 602heavy]
#889851
12/28/10 01:32 PM
12/28/10 01:32 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 808 mckinney texas
shoebox
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 808
mckinney texas
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i hear yall.. maybe i can get with clovis here on that 250 cam or do the 557. i need to stay as low buck as possible! lol thanks for all the input!
Last edited by shoebox; 12/28/10 01:32 PM.
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Re: mopar 590 cam.; what CR do i need to go with it?
[Re: maximum entropy]
#889853
12/28/10 02:56 PM
12/28/10 02:56 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,200 UK
602heavy
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,200
UK
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Quote:
the narrow lsa cams don't need that much compression. :
That maybe true to a point , but what you gotta realise is the more that cam is advanced the earlier exhaust valve is opened , not a good call with long duration low comp motors. .............the Ultradyne will make more power across the board than that 590 , will idle a bunch nicer too.
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Re: mopar 590 cam.; what CR do i need to go with it?
[Re: shoebox]
#889857
12/28/10 03:52 PM
12/28/10 03:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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FWIW, three cams I've used w/ different 440 combinations over the years. Every one of these cams is smaller than an MP .590" (271 @ .050", 106 LSA). 1. 9.8 CR, ported OEM heads, 3200-stall: 246/246 @.050", .560", 110 LSA ==> 11.7 @ 118 MPH 2. 9.8 CR, ported OEM heads, 4500-stall: 254/254 @.050", .554", 108 LSA ==> 11.0 @ 122 MPH 3. 10.8 CR, MP Stage VI heads, 4500-stall: 266/266 @ .050", .600", 108 LSA ==> 10.5 @ 126 MPH The car used 4.10s, ran w/ a full exhaust system the whole time, and weighed 3650++ lbs w/ driver.
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Re: mopar 590 cam.; what CR do i need to go with it?
[Re: maximum entropy]
#889858
12/28/10 04:23 PM
12/28/10 04:23 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,200 UK
602heavy
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,200
UK
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Quote:
Quote:
will idle a bunch nicer too.
i have a problem with that...
Maybe you did'nt , but the OP might. .........well , if he ain't gonna run that 590 on the street then all is good right?
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Re: mopar 590 cam.; what CR do i need to go with it?
[Re: BradH]
#889861
12/28/10 04:40 PM
12/28/10 04:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,874 Smyrna, South Carolina
STEFF
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,874
Smyrna, South Carolina
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Quote:
It's obvious you just want people to tell you it's OK to run the .590, regardless of whether it's the right cam or not.
It's not.
Boy, isn't that the truth! This guy had his mind all made up & it didn't matter what anyone say..........and then he consistently whips out the "Cheap" word as well. Give it time, he'll be back posting "why is my car a dog??" But, hey it'll have a wicked idle.
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Re: mopar 590 cam.; what CR do i need to go with it?
[Re: 602heavy]
#889863
12/29/10 12:28 AM
12/29/10 12:28 AM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 202 TN Hoosier
jb500
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 202
TN Hoosier
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Quote:
Me , i'd go with the Ultradyne.............the earlier that 590 is installed the less top end #s that motor is gonna see , why install on a 100 CL? , surely this is telling you the cam is too big for the motor , installing that cam too early will be fine for the 'seat of the pants' feel , with the comp ratio you're running that 590 will be a dog , much better grinds out there for you're application.
What about the UD 290/.597 cam? 263@.050 and 108CL. That is what Tim at Bullet recommended for my stock stroke combo: 10.5,RPM heads, Dynamic 9.5, and 4.10. Runs great on the street and has a mean ex lope.
My best so far is 11.58@115 3800lbs Coronet. May be more in it if I knew what I was doing(not much track time....yet).
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