318 timing sprocket marks
#886209
12/23/10 11:11 AM
12/23/10 11:11 AM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 869 Sugarloaf, PA. USA
JamiePasson
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I am having trouble with the farm truck. 1978 Dodge Power Wagon. 318. Took the timing cover off because we suspected that it jumped a tooth on the chain. Well, it didn,t but the chain is stretched BAD. So, I am changing it. I got a Mopar Perf (Melling) double roller timing chain. However, this is where I am confused. Correct me if I am wrong: You are supposed to put the engine on TDC and then line the sprocket marks up when installing the chain. Crank mark at 12:00, cam mark at 6:00. When the crank is at TDC, the keyway on the crank is at 2:00. When I removed the old timing chain and sprockets, you can plainly see the dimple is at 12:00 on the crank sprocket and the keyway is at 2:00. On the new sprocket, you have three options for timing. 0 degrees, 4 degrees advanced or 4 degrees retarded. I obviously want to use the 0 degree keyway on the crank. The problem is that there is only one dimple (timing mark) on the crank sprocket that is right above the 0 degree keyway. Where I am confused is that this is going to require me to turn the crank way back to line the timing marks up on the two sprockets. IT will no longer be on TDC. Any ideas? Miss stamped sprockets? Am I missing something? Thanks, Jamie
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Re: 318 timing sprocket marks
[Re: buildanother]
#886215
12/23/10 01:49 PM
12/23/10 01:49 PM
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 606 Montana
Yancy Derringer
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I would install the sprockets "on the marks" and then when you reinstall the timing cover and balancer, CHECK TDC. Use a positive stop: Put in no1, making sure the engine is NOT on TDC, and there is room for the tool to go in. Gently wrench the engine around until it stops "on the stop" and make a temporary mark on the wheel right under TDC on the tab Do the same CCW True TDC will now be halfway between these two temporary marks, and if the original mark was correct, that is where it will be You may just be seeing the difference caused by chain stretch As someone else said, when the marks are "dot to dot" the engine is ACTUALLY on "no6 ready to fire", not no1. If you do not rotate the engine you want the rotor pointing to 6, not 1. You probably did not pull the dist, so it should be OK except a minor movement to retime (for chain stretch)
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Re: 318 timing sprocket marks
[Re: jsswope67]
#886219
05/09/12 03:26 PM
05/09/12 03:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,095 A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
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Quote:
My local parts store does not have a positive stop...
Is this thread still open and being read? So should I point my rotor to #6?? I set my marks the same as in the picture above. 12 o clock and 6 o clock, never found out this info until now.
2 years after it was originally opened , doubtful .
But yes when the dots are aligned as in the picture above that is actually firing cylinder #6 , #1 cylinder is at TDC , but on a different part of the stroke cycle.
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Re: 318 timing sprocket marks
[Re: 70AARcuda]
#886224
05/09/12 04:30 PM
05/09/12 04:30 PM
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jsswope67
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Re: 318 timing sprocket marks
[Re: jsswope67]
#886225
05/09/12 05:19 PM
05/09/12 05:19 PM
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JohnRR
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Quote:
It starts and idles fine, so leave it that way or change the dist wire for #1 to #6?
Revs ok, idles with some slight hissing and small pops, has some blowback out of the EGR hose.
Runs awhile then heats up and pings, just put new thermostat in it and have the heater core out.
I did reset the timing some and it heats up sooner than it did, about 1 mile vs. 8miles.
Pings, loses power and heats up. Plugs are very soot filled each time.
Also cannot see my mark with the timing light, solid line across dampener painted white.
Well first off it's running so you must have done something right, if the distributor was off 180* the car would not even start.
But that said there is no guarantee that the timing gears are marked correctly , more than once someone has gotten an incorrectly indexed set.
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Re: 318 timing sprocket marks
[Re: rth]
#886227
05/09/12 07:05 PM
05/09/12 07:05 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,848 Memphis
HemiRick
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Nope both small block and big line up dot to dot and are firing on number 6 when doing so.
If the engine is running at this point no need to do anything. You got lucky.
Take care, Rick 68 Coronet R/T 440 & 68 Charger 528 Hemi,and 5 Challengers! 6 cyl, 318, 360, 383, 451
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Re: 318 timing sprocket marks
[Re: HemiRick]
#886228
05/09/12 09:56 PM
05/09/12 09:56 PM
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jsswope67
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Other than the heating up issue, loss of power and pinging of valves after a while its fine, I read on another board of a similar issue, they tought it was running too too lean, person swapped out a carb and it fixed it, at this point, I do not want to go chasing my tail, so may play with needle adjustments, rebuilt the carb three times to make sure, put in another step up piston assembly with needles from another carb that may have had good settings, so not sure where to go. I know one thing if I have to pull the timing cover off again (for the third time) I will put in a rougher cam. Current carb is a Carter BDD 2 barrel.
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Re: 318 timing sprocket marks
[Re: jsswope67]
#886229
05/09/12 10:11 PM
05/09/12 10:11 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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put a light on it & time it at 10-15BTDC initial
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 318 timing sprocket marks
[Re: jsswope67]
#886231
05/09/12 10:38 PM
05/09/12 10:38 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Something dont sound right that it'll die with any less than 18 (If I read you right)
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 318 timing sprocket marks
[Re: jsswope67]
#886233
05/09/12 11:49 PM
05/09/12 11:49 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,848 Memphis
HemiRick
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After you put it back together did you move any of the wires on the cap to make it run? if so that's why you can't see the line on the damper.
Take care, Rick 68 Coronet R/T 440 & 68 Charger 528 Hemi,and 5 Challengers! 6 cyl, 318, 360, 383, 451
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Re: 318 timing sprocket marks
[Re: jsswope67]
#886235
05/10/12 12:10 AM
05/10/12 12:10 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,848 Memphis
HemiRick
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For the line to be in the right place, so does #1 plug wire on the distributor need to be in the right place. Most likely you wires are rotated 180 from where there supposed to be on the cap and the distributor is also 180 out.
Take care, Rick 68 Coronet R/T 440 & 68 Charger 528 Hemi,and 5 Challengers! 6 cyl, 318, 360, 383, 451
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Re: 318 timing sprocket marks
[Re: RapidRobert]
#886238
05/10/12 10:39 AM
05/10/12 10:39 AM
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Posts: 75,095 A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
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Quote:
put a light on it & time it at 10-15BTDC initial
Before giving advice like this a question needs to be asked ...
What distributor are you running and what changes to it have you made ?
If it is just a stock points or electronic and you have made no changes your first problem is you have way too much intial advance. Stock mopars distributor have 30 - 32 degrees of mechanical advance in them , with almost 20 degrees intial your mechanical is up to 50 degrees , no wonder it's pinging and running like bleep
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Re: 318 timing sprocket marks
[Re: jsswope67]
#886244
05/10/12 02:30 PM
05/10/12 02:30 PM
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JohnRR
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Quote:
It's an out of the box electronic dist, new cap never changed any settings in the dist.
How old is it ?
You more than likely have too much total advance , that is why it's pinging.
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Re: 318 timing sprocket marks
[Re: jsswope67]
#886249
05/10/12 04:00 PM
05/10/12 04:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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JohnRR
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Quote:
Ok, #1 wire is on the tower just before the front clip going clockwise and the zero mark on the timing cover is showing 15BTDC with a timing light. Started up fine, it's a little cooler outside today about 56 degrees, idles, even backed it up a few feet. I know if I try and drive it, it will ping lose power and bog down.
Roll the intial back to 5 degrees and readjust the idle 700-800 rpm, recheck intial. A 1.5 year old , assuming it's brand new and not 20 yr old stock, will have the adjustable mechanical advance but from the factory it comes set at max which I am pretty sure is 28 degrees.
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Re: 318 timing sprocket marks
[Re: JohnRR]
#886250
05/10/12 04:54 PM
05/10/12 04:54 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345 Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
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whew....maybe it's time to start all over with the timing! just to eliminate any issues with it.
remove the driver side valve cover. rotate the engine by hand, watch for the #1 intake valve to open, then close, then continue to turn the crank until the timing mark on the dampner is at the 0 degrees TDC mark on the timing cover. this may be off a degree or 2 if the dampner has slipped at all, or due to factory tolerances in the timing cover assembly, but it'll be close enough. Now, drop in the distributor so that the rotor is pointing towards the number 1 plug tower on the cap, twisting the distributor as needed to make it line up. you now have located #1. now, going clockwise on the distributor cap, install the rest of the plug wires, 8 would be next, continue on down the firing order till you finish with #2.
then start it, and set your timing with the light, which should be clipped to the #1 plug wire.
after that, start chasing carb settings to track down the overheating issue.
**Photobucket sucks**
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Re: 318 timing sprocket marks
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#886251
05/10/12 10:28 PM
05/10/12 10:28 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27 PA
jsswope67
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phew is right... Know how many times I have done that? Enough to use 3 tubes of high temp sealant on the valve cover, only to find one more thing I missed. What about the reluctor lining up with the tip on the dist gap? Do I need to change the dist gap or adjustment? Once I was told before to have the slot on top of the oil pump gear in line with the crankshaft, I think I have the timing close now, it was around 12, just tried another carb, 3rd one, it over flowed in the piston assembly vent compartment, pulled of the top, lost the float pin and it became too dark, screw it til tomorrow, the 2 BBL BDD carter is easy to rebuild, just a pain of all the pieces, should get a 650 carb and alum intake and be done with it, it runs again it may never come apart again. Run it til it dies, want to restore but getting resentful towards it, btw I did move #1 cylinder plug wire to the CC tower marked #1 on the dist cap, seemed to run a little better. Took vacc hose off dist and revved it plugged; timing mark never moved. NAPA for all parts from now on, sorry Advance and Auto Zone, your parts suck! Would like to replace the ignition harnesses from the firewall out if I can find a new one reasonable.
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Re: 318 timing sprocket marks
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#886252
05/14/12 05:25 PM
05/14/12 05:25 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27 PA
jsswope67
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Got the third carb on, after freeing it up and building the top part and cleaning it,resolves some of the carb probs, idles runs smoother was loading up didn't drive it, pulled the drivers valve cover, I forget the first valve is exhaust? With the solid mark on zero and the rotor button pointing towards firewall I hand turn it back to the solid mark again COUNTERCLOCKWISE, half turn on the dist )(FULL CC TURN ON THE CRANK BY HAND) and the rotor button points out front, (Note I am turning CC cause its easier from my vantage point and to watch the valves, on this first rotation the first valve opens, I stop to line up then turn by hand again so rotor button points to firewall, full turn half on the dist, valve #2 on cylinder 1 never moves, its either stuck or cam is worn??? I pulled all the plugs and cylinder #4 had lots of soot, so it is time to take the heads of and look for worn or stuck valves? Oh and drivers side valve cover had some pasty white milk on the top inside of it, not a ton but some. A bit on the inside top facing firewall. in the rain
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Re: 318 timing sprocket marks
[Re: jsswope67]
#886255
05/15/12 10:30 AM
05/15/12 10:30 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,095 A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
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Quote:
Cylinder #1 intake valve is def not moving,
'77 Chrysler small block 318
Left side valves are #1 EI #3-EI #5-EI 7-#EI Right side valves are #2-IE #4-IE #6-IE #8-IE
Automatic trans calls for 8 degrees top dead center Specs from 1979 Edition of Peterson's Big Book of Auto Repair-
May pull cover and check right side
#1 exhaust valve opens on exhaust but not intake
Have you checked for a loose rocker arm on #1 intake ?
also your valve layout above is wrong unless you have a smallblock ford .. i think that is the SBF layout.
Mopar both big and small block , not the hemi have paired intakes and exh.
E II EE II E
Sounds like you have a flat cam lobe or the pushrod is so bent that it's not moving the valve.
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Re: 318 timing sprocket marks
[Re: JohnRR]
#886256
05/15/12 03:51 PM
05/15/12 03:51 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27 PA
jsswope67
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Going to recheck it for movement, in a bit. If I remember correct the pushrod was a bit tight, it did move a few months ago. I believe cylinders 3 and 4 had the most soot on the spark plugs if thats another clue. You're correct on the sequence except for my engine 318 340, 360, 383, 400, 426, and 440 the sequence you sent 318 is EI EI EI EI for left side then IE IE IE IE for right side
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Re: 318 timing sprocket marks
[Re: jsswope67]
#886257
05/15/12 05:59 PM
05/15/12 05:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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JohnRR
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Quote:
Going to recheck it for movement, in a bit. If I remember correct the pushrod was a bit tight, it did move a few months ago. I believe cylinders 3 and 4 had the most soot on the spark plugs if thats another clue.
You're correct on the sequence except for my engine 318
340, 360, 383, 400, 426, and 440 the sequence you sent
318 is EI EI EI EI for left side
then IE IE IE IE for right side
That is impossible unless you have a poly head 318 ???
The heads for the 340/360 can be bolted onto a 318, the manifolds sold to fit LA engines all fit 318's and 340/360's .
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Re: 318 timing sprocket marks
[Re: JohnRR]
#886258
05/15/12 06:07 PM
05/15/12 06:07 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
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jsswope67
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I'm taking that info out of the 1979 Peterson Book for the sequence unless its a misprint. I'l like to find a set of 360 heads if you know of any. Not familiar with a poly head, how do I tell?
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Re: 318 timing sprocket marks
[Re: jsswope67]
#886259
05/15/12 06:13 PM
05/15/12 06:13 PM
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JohnRR
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Quote:
I'm taking that info out of the 1979 Peterson Book for the sequence unless its a misprint.
I'l like to find a set of 360 heads if you know of any.
Not familiar with a poly head, how do I tell?
It's a misprint .
Poly head is completely different.
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