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Re: Oil Consumption Culprit Found!!!
[Re: repad]
#877760
12/12/10 11:01 PM
12/12/10 11:01 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
bobs66440
OP
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OP
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Joined: Mar 2010
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Out in Left Field, NY
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Quote:
Quote: Do you guys think that this could be responsible for that much oil usage? This is the last thing to try before going the rebuild route, which I hate to do because it runs so good...I don't want to open a can of worms (and my wallet).
Not to be a wise a$$ but you've already opened a can of worms. You know where this is giong from this piont, just save yourself the grief of tearing it down in the car, pull it, inspect everything and when you find out how worn it really is, rebuild it. Hey, its winter, what else do you have to do? I'll be tearing down another one myself in a few weeks.
Well, my main issue with the engine is the oil consumption. It runs very well and otherwise I'm happy. As it stands now this fix (if it works) will cost me almost nothing as I got the gaskets with the car, just a few hours labor. A rebuild will cost me $3000-$3500 and a lot more labor and headaches. My finances dictate that since this is a summer weekend driver, I'll opt for almost free if I can get away with it. If it doesn't work, well, no great loss.
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Re: Oil Consumption Culprit Found?
[Re: bboogieart]
#877765
12/13/10 11:22 AM
12/13/10 11:22 AM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
bobs66440
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OP
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Joined: Mar 2010
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Quote:
I've been thinking and it seems no one has asked where a quart of oil per 200 miles is going. That much oil would cause the plugs to foul real fast, a big cloud of smoke should be following you every where, and the motor won't run right. The O. P. says the motor runs fine. Is there a quart of oil on the ground or sitting under the intake? That is a lot of oil, where is it going? Are you putting in 5 or 6 quarts to begin with? Is you dip stick accurate? A lot of good info on sealing the intake, but is this the real problem?
Those are all good questions and ones I've asked myself many times.
Many things don't make sense or act as if they should. It does run really good except it starts hard when it's hot. It does smoke some under heavy acceleration but mostly when I let off the gas. But I agree, there should be a cloud of smoke all the time. It leaks virtually no oil, no puddles anywhere. I've pulled the plugs a few times and there is some fouling but not like you would think. As far as oil capacity, there is some question because I have never been able to identify the oil pan I have (maybe someone can help)
The sump depth is the same as the stock pan I think (5-1/4" approx.) but the rear part is much deeper (2-3/4" approx.). I installed a new 440 dip stick and it takes about 7 qts. with filter to get it to the full line. In theory it shouldn't matter how deep the pan is as long as the oil is at the correct level in relation to the crank right? My first thought was that I was overfilling it, so I let it go below the "1 qt. low" mark but it just kept dropping. I was afraid of running it out of oil so I filled it back up. A sign of overfilling is foaming of the oil while running which I checked but it looked good when I pulled the dip stick. Believe me, it has me baffled too. I've tried all types of PCV and breather arrangements, new valve stem seals, etc. and nothing has made a difference. It's either the intake gaskets or a rebuild...
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Re: Oil Consumption Culprit Found?
[Re: JohnRR]
#877767
12/13/10 12:34 PM
12/13/10 12:34 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
bobs66440
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Joined: Mar 2010
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Quote:
Does it puff alot out the valve cover breather after it has warmed up ?
You have a lot of oil around the intake ports , it really shouldn't be on either side of the valley when you pull the intake if it were sealed well.
Are you sure it's a qt in 200 miles ?
It has some blowby but not excessive unles you really rev it, then it blows out pretty good. I think there's a lot of oil around the ports because it wasn't sealing. I'm positive it's 1 qt/200 miles (according to my odometer which is accurate as far as I can tell).
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Re: Oil Consumption Culprit Found?
[Re: bobs66440]
#877768
12/13/10 12:58 PM
12/13/10 12:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,127
Niles , Ohio
therocks
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
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oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,127
Niles , Ohio
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Its easy to seal the 4 corners and the flats under the hold downs.Before you install the valley pan just put a thin bead where the hold downs go on the block and I just put a small bead at the 4 corners where the tray meets the head.Install the valley pan and the hold downs and intake and you are done.My last one was on 10 years and never leaked.Only reason I redid it was I went to aluminum heads.I use antisieze on all the bolts.Never had oil migrate up them and they will always come out easy. Rocky
Chrysler Firepower
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Re: Oil Consumption Culprit Found?
[Re: bobs66440]
#877769
12/13/10 01:42 PM
12/13/10 01:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,313
A gulag near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,313
A gulag near you.
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Quote:
Quote:
Does it puff alot out the valve cover breather after it has warmed up ?
You have a lot of oil around the intake ports , it really shouldn't be on either side of the valley when you pull the intake if it were sealed well.
Are you sure it's a qt in 200 miles ?
It has some blowby but not excessive unles you really rev it, then it blows out pretty good. I think there's a lot of oil around the ports because it wasn't sealing. I'm positive it's 1 qt/200 miles (according to my odometer which is accurate as far as I can tell).
What's the mileage on the motor ? sounds like you are still going to be using oil after you fix that leak , it might be getting time to bite the bullet and rebuild it , or at least freshen, it if possible.
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Re: Oil Consumption Culprit Found?
[Re: JohnRR]
#877770
12/13/10 02:25 PM
12/13/10 02:25 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
bobs66440
OP
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OP
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Does it puff alot out the valve cover breather after it has warmed up ?
You have a lot of oil around the intake ports , it really shouldn't be on either side of the valley when you pull the intake if it were sealed well.
Are you sure it's a qt in 200 miles ?
It has some blowby but not excessive unles you really rev it, then it blows out pretty good. I think there's a lot of oil around the ports because it wasn't sealing. I'm positive it's 1 qt/200 miles (according to my odometer which is accurate as far as I can tell).
What's the mileage on the motor ? sounds like you are still going to be using oil after you fix that leak , it might be getting time to bite the bullet and rebuild it , or at least freshen, it if possible.
I'm not sure of the mileage as it's not the original motor, but I'm sure it's been a long time since it's last rebuild...if ever. I don't doubt it could benefit from a rebuild, but since I put so few miles on it I would rather put the money in a new interior if I can get the oil usage to a manageable level. We'll see when I get it back together.
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Re: Oil Consumption Culprit Found?
[Re: bobs66440]
#877772
12/13/10 09:52 PM
12/13/10 09:52 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
Striving for excellence
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Striving for excellence
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
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Those are all good questions and ones I've asked myself many times.
Many things don't make sense or act as if they should. It does run really good except it starts hard when it's hot. It does smoke some under heavy acceleration but mostly when I let off the gas. But I agree, there should be a cloud of smoke all the time. It leaks virtually no oil, no puddles anywhere. I've pulled the plugs a few times and there is some fouling but not like you would think. Believe me, it has me baffled too. I've tried all types of PCV and breather arrangements, (quote) Man, THIS is CREEPY. Its as if I was writing this VERY thing about MY Charger. I have a few small drips from the engine though. My car uses oil, but since I dont drive it that often, I cant accurately say how much. Mine smokes on full throttle, but when I rev the motor in neutral, its not oil smoke. It clears out quickly and smells like gasoline. Add to that that there are NO oil specs at the back of the car, a symptom that often accompanies cars that burn oil. I bought a rebuild kit for the 850, and I hope to go through the carb in the next 2 weeks.
Good luck with your car, I hope our experiences and efforts can help each other out!
Last edited by Frankenduster; 12/14/10 12:13 AM.
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Re: Oil Consumption Culprit Found?
[Re: BSB67]
#877773
12/13/10 10:12 PM
12/13/10 10:12 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
bobs66440
OP
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OP
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
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Quote:
One step at a time. Get it back together and see how it runs, just don't get too optimistic.
Yeah, I learned not to get too excited. I was ecstatic when I saw how bad the valve seals were...but no go...oh well, it is what it is...
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Re: Oil Consumption Culprit Found?
[Re: Kern Dog]
#877774
12/13/10 10:18 PM
12/13/10 10:18 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
bobs66440
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Quote:
I have a few small drips from the sngine though. ...Good luck with your car, I hope our experiences and efforts can help each other out!
Thanks. I get a few drops on the floor after a week or so too but nothing that means anything (no puddles). I'll let you know how it turns out.
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Re: Oil Consumption Culprit Found?
[Re: bobs66440]
#877775
12/21/10 11:19 PM
12/21/10 11:19 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
bobs66440
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OP
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Out in Left Field, NY
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Well, the verdict is in...I drove the Charger to work today (100 miles round trip) with the new intake gaskets and...SUCCESS!!!  It worked!! Normally it would have used 1/2 quart and this trip it used ZERO!!  I'm very happy and thank you to everyone for your help and suggestions!!  This is a great Christmas present!! Now I can use the cash to redo the interior! JohnRR and BSB67 were right. There weren't enough gaskets to take up the space and oil and vacuum were leaking. Unfortunately it's not running as well now, I think due to the fact that the carbs were adjusted for a lean condition...now there's no leak so it's running a bit rich and blubbering a little but that's a relatively easy fix...and it's certainly driveable. I ended up using one .030 fiber gasket on each side of the pan with Hi-Tack to hold them in place. I also put a bead of Ultra Black silicone on the end rails and corners. I also smeared a very thin coat of the silicine on the very inside sealing edges of the heads and gaskets, trying not to get it near the intake ports. One lesson I'm taking from this is there isn't necessarily one definite gasket setup that can cover all situations. You will have to experiment to see which will work. It's probably best - as was mentioned - to have the thick and thin gaskets at hand to be ready. Thanks again!! 
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Re: Oil Consumption Culprit Found!!!!!
[Re: Kern Dog]
#877777
12/22/10 08:03 AM
12/22/10 08:03 AM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
bobs66440
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Joined: Mar 2010
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Out in Left Field, NY
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Quote:
Way to go, HELL Yeah!
I am hoping to report some similar good news with my car, another Charger with a big block. I too have had the oil consumption problem and pulled my intake to take a look. I found that one of the paper gaskets had torn near an intake port. putting it all back together resulted in no change.
I talked with an extremely helpful man at Hensley Performance today. I have a few other areas to check, and I too will post my findings. I am quite happy for you, as I am sympathetic to your situation. These cars are far too nice to just sit in the garage.
Thanks for the kind words. Hopefully you can get it fixed soon! Let us know how you make out.
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