Re: What do you want? Year One Resto or The Real Deal?
[Re: Cudakid]
#859666
11/21/10 08:45 PM
11/21/10 08:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,162 DELAWARE
TONY_DAGOSTINO
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,162
DELAWARE
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great post assuming the restorer has the knowledge to provide a correct resto (which from what ive seen not many do), the restorer is at the mercy of the customers wants, desires, ability to provide correct parts, knowledge to know whats right + wrong and the ability to locate and purchase the hard to find parts. technique is something that can be redone over and over to get the correct look/appearance/finish, but the parts are the most difficult aspect,in my opinion. as mentioned in another thread about the oe valiant, original tires were located and bought for the car. a very difficult task, if one of the tires got lost or destroyed it would be a big problem to replace. but if it was a repo, all it would take is 1 phone call to get a replacement. same goes as far as workmenship, for example, if the paint drips on the torsion bars didnt come out as desired on the first try, you can do it over and over til the desired look was had. again, proof that the parts is the more difficult part of a resto. how many people know the difference between an incorrectly restored part or repo part, compared to an original, and how many more care which one will go on their car? not too many i would assume. i dont feel it really effects the value of the car in the end that much, even though it should. clean, pretty, shinny restos and all the better quality repo parts appears to satisfy the majority of the owners, judges and restorers with little if any credit given for the "over the top" correct type parts, workmanship + finish restos Mike is one of the restorers that does know whats right and wrong , has pride in his work and cares to do the right job. i wouldnt call it a dying breed as i dont feel there were ever that many people that did care to do the right thing. but Matt, the main thing is that you have the restoration that makes you happy, and not to do it to impresses anyone else, that way youll never be disappointed if the car is to YOUR liking. and btw, you made an excellent choice with Mike. just dont tell him that too much, we dont want it to go to his head and raise our rates Tony
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Re: What do you want? Year One Resto or The Real Deal?
[Re: TONY_DAGOSTINO]
#859668
11/21/10 09:01 PM
11/21/10 09:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,855 Georgetown Ontario Canada
anlauto
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,855
Georgetown Ontario Canada
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I think the two people mentioned in Matt's post offer two completely different styles of restoration... Whether "Mike" is better then "Ken" is not really the question. Both guys provide an excellent finished product, but both styles are worlds apart... Can Mike cut and polish the underside of a car....I'm more then certain he can.... Can Ken (not to be confused with can can) bring a car to OE Gold certification...without a doubt.. I can't speak for either of these guys, but like Tony mention above...Their restos are customer driven...I know of a particular 70 Cuda that ate up all the awards last year, but even the owner admits it's "over restored" and most likely wouldn't win OE Gold... The nice part of this question...I feel there's ROOM FOR EVERYBODY in this hobby from OE Gold Valiants to F.A.S.T. shootout cars....as long as it's Mopar or No Car
CHECK OUT MY NEW WEB SITE !
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Re: What do you want? Year One Resto or The Real Deal?
[Re: Cudakid]
#859669
11/21/10 09:07 PM
11/21/10 09:07 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,039 INDIANA
Paul Jacobs
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,039
INDIANA
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You bring up some good points. I say to each his own when choosing how to restore their car. Everyone knows how expensive and hard it is to use NOS parts, so I completely understand using repo parts. My problem is when situations occur like what you describe. If you choose to "over restore" a car, just realize it's not "correct". And if your a restoration company, don't pump yourself up as being the best restoration company in the world, if your doing Year One restorations! What we have now is typical politics trickeling down to shows and races. If a restoration company sponsors the event, then apparently the judging staff seems to think it is ok to award trophies to the sponsoring company-whether they have the best car or not! Some shows even allow the restoration company to judge their own cars!! JUST TO BE CLEAR-IM NOT TALKING ABOUT THIS SHOW.... This has happened repeatedly, and is truly a lack of ethics on the part of the restoration company and the show coordinators. How this can even be allowed is beyond me, and many others have voiced concern over it. It spoils the hobby and makes people fail to participate in these events. I agree that an original class is just that. If you have 2 cars next to each other in original class, then the one that has boatloads of NOS parts, is painted correctly, and assembled correctly should score higher than a "pretty" car! Anything less is a big joke, and I for one have had it. I was at several shows this year watching judges. I overheard many comments that made me cringe in disbelief. I heard NOS/assembly line parts labeled as reproduction, and one judge said he couldn't tell NOS tires from repops! The bottome line is there is little INTEGRITY in the world today and it seems to be getting worse. I will now get off my soapbox.
Last edited by Paul Jacobs; 11/23/10 06:40 PM.
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Re: What do you want? Year One Resto or The Real Deal?
[Re: Cudakid]
#859670
11/21/10 09:11 PM
11/21/10 09:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,855 Georgetown Ontario Canada
anlauto
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,855
Georgetown Ontario Canada
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As far as the reproduction parts.... There was only so many NOS parts to go around, and when they're gone, they're gone. Having been in the Mopar Hobby for over 27 years I'm glad that the level and quantity of Mopar parts available has 10fold in the last five years... Would I rather use the $450 Chinese Challenger tail light bezels over a $2500 NOS set...The answer is quit simple for MYcustomer clientele that's for sure
CHECK OUT MY NEW WEB SITE !
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Re: What do you want? Year One Resto or The Real Deal?
[Re: Runnin74]
#859675
11/21/10 10:06 PM
11/21/10 10:06 PM
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 14 san diego
clownin mopar
member
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member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 14
san diego
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I think most of them get their training from reading mopar magazines or looking at restored cars, rather than researching original cars! Or they simply pick the car they like the most.
If I knew retirement was this great, I would have done it first!
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Re: What do you want? Year One Resto or The Real Deal?
[Re: clownin mopar]
#859677
11/21/10 11:05 PM
11/21/10 11:05 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,123 Warrenton, VA
RoadRunnerJD
master
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master
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,123
Warrenton, VA
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Quote:
I think most of them get their training from reading mopar magazines...
A comment like that will get this thing going in the wrong direction. Let's face it, not all judges can be as knowledgable as a Paul Jacobs, Roger Gibson, Scott, Dave, or other noted experts. Those guys are also not likely to be available to judge or really want to take the time it takes when they do it every day for a living. If you like to go to judged shows, you have to appreciate whoever volunteers or gets cornered into it. A lot of judges I know have cars, have been around cars, have taken them apart and put them together, raced and showed them. None of them will say they are all knowing but they all are good people who are giving their time to look at our pride and joy. I have found that some of the worst judging is the fault of the one's running the show who just want their judges to do a fast and minimal effort. Don't expect too much and you won't be disappointed.
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Re: What do you want? Year One Resto or The Real Deal?
[Re: Runnin74]
#859678
11/21/10 11:06 PM
11/21/10 11:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,547 Las Vegas, NV
6bblgt
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,547
Las Vegas, NV
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Quote:
Where does the typical judge in this hobby get their training?
There is no training, most judges are volunteer & have their limitations. It's a THANKLESS job!
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Re: What do you want? Year One Resto or The Real Deal?
[Re: 6bblgt]
#859679
11/21/10 11:52 PM
11/21/10 11:52 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,804 It's a dry heat
gtx6970
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,804
It's a dry heat
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Quote:
Quote:
Where does the typical judge in this hobby get their training?
There is no training, most judges are volunteer & have their limitations. It's a THANKLESS job!
And this is why it's getting harder and harder to find qualified people to volunteer as a judge.
Make it an all make show, and you've quadrupled your chances against finding qualified people.
Throw in the politics surrounding an OE level show,,,,,, and you'll have fewer and fewer people wishing to participate it at any level.
On a personal note. I don't think even I'm qualified to judge today, and I have NO interest to either
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Re: What do you want? Year One Resto or The Real Deal?
[Re: domingo]
#859682
11/22/10 12:47 AM
11/22/10 12:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows?
1_WILD_RT
Management Trainee
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Management Trainee
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
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Quote:
...There is room for everything and everybody in the hobby....
...for those who want to pay 5k for a set of shocks, and for those who dont see the point of spending that much and who will settle for something that looks 99% close...
...there is room for those who actually want to drive their rare cars, and for those who want to roll em off and on a trailer and dont want the NOS tires to touch the ground so they mount em when the car is lifted...
...whatever makes you happy I guess....
...I personally like (for myself) a very well done resto, that I can actually drive, using some repro parts here and there when the factory parts prove too hard to locate or when they are crazy $$$...
However I also like to look at the over the top restorations at the shows as s spectator. I dont think I would really enjoy owning a car I cant drive though...
My thoughts exactly... And I suspect many others feel the same...
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