Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Wire Size 100 amp alternator #858155
11/19/10 06:38 PM
11/19/10 06:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23
IL.
B
bcudaj380 Offline OP
member
bcudaj380  Offline OP
member
B

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23
IL.
I am going to move the battery to
the trunk and upgrade my alternator
to a 100amp tuff stuff alternator.
What gauge wire do I need to use
going to and from the disconnect
switch?

Re: Wire Size 100 amp alternator [Re: bcudaj380] #858156
11/19/10 07:20 PM
11/19/10 07:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
Mopar_Rich Offline
top fuel
Mopar_Rich  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
Run #6 in copper.

Re: Wire Size 100 amp alternator [Re: Mopar_Rich] #858157
11/19/10 07:59 PM
11/19/10 07:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23
IL.
B
bcudaj380 Offline OP
member
bcudaj380  Offline OP
member
B

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23
IL.
Thank you for the reply.

Re: Wire Size 100 amp alternator [Re: bcudaj380] #858158
11/19/10 08:21 PM
11/19/10 08:21 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 606
Montana
Y
Yancy Derringer Offline
mopar
Yancy Derringer  Offline
mopar
Y

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 606
Montana
Wait a minute---let's look this over---

what kind of disconnect are you dreaming up?

I'm gonna guess you bought a "one wire" alternator, and if so, here's what you have-----

The alternator voltage sense is AT THE ALTERNATOR, so now? do I assume?? you are running a no6 all the way from the alternator TO THE BACK to the batt. side of the disconnect, then from the cold side of the disconect, you run a HEAVIER cable ALL THE WAY back up front where all the loads are connected?

If so, you have one hell of a lot of wire, there

You may find---if so---that you don't have decent voltage "up front" with the car running.

Re: Wire Size 100 amp alternator [Re: bcudaj380] #858159
11/19/10 09:37 PM
11/19/10 09:37 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,305
West Coast, USA
jbc426 Offline
master
jbc426  Offline
master

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,305
West Coast, USA
Doesn't sound good. Better read up on this topic at Mad Electric. It can point you in the right direction.

http://www.madelectrical.com/electrical-tech.shtml

Mopar alternators are terrible at producing power at low/ idle rpm, and not wiring them correctly to a rear mounted battery can make things worse.

I just finished upgrading my charging system with a CS144 alternator. It pretty much bolts right on and puts out up to 120 amps at idle, and maintains 14 volts at 850 rpm with both electric fans, my electric fuel pump and MSD running. Over 1000 rpm it holds 14.55 volts and is capable of supplying over 170 amps. I'll post a picture later.


1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
Re: Wire Size 100 amp alternator [Re: jbc426] #858160
11/19/10 11:25 PM
11/19/10 11:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,598
Dandridge TN
D
Dabee Offline
master
Dabee  Offline
master
D

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,598
Dandridge TN
Wire it up like this with the relay mounted up front. That way you don't need to run the 6 guage wire all the way to the back of the car and it will kill the power and engine when the emergancy shut off is pulled.

6310408-KILLSWITCHRELAY.JPG (2049 downloads)
Re: Wire Size 100 amp alternator [Re: Dabee] #858161
11/19/10 11:35 PM
11/19/10 11:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 606
Montana
Y
Yancy Derringer Offline
mopar
Yancy Derringer  Offline
mopar
Y

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 606
Montana
That is certainly one way. Make sure you actually get a "continuous duty" solenoid and not a starter solenoid. The latter won't last long---about 10 minutes!!

Re: Wire Size 100 amp alternator [Re: bcudaj380] #858162
11/20/10 02:51 PM
11/20/10 02:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23
IL.
B
bcudaj380 Offline OP
member
bcudaj380  Offline OP
member
B

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23
IL.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TFF-7509RFDP/
This is the alternator I have with a seperate
voltage regulator. I like the solenoid up front
idea and can run the electric fuel pump to the solenoid.
What gauge wire do I need for the trigger?
I will have a Ford type starter solenoid in the trunk,
so the battery cable will be dead other then when starting.

Thanks for all the info from everyone.

Re: Wire Size 100 amp alternator [Re: bcudaj380] #858163
11/20/10 06:47 PM
11/20/10 06:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 606
Montana
Y
Yancy Derringer Offline
mopar
Yancy Derringer  Offline
mopar
Y

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 606
Montana
With the alternator you chose, all you need to do is break the ignition feed to the alternator, and you can do that with a smaller relay, and by using a 4 post disconnect

A 4 post disconnect has two large posts for the main battery feed, and two smaller ones.

You could, for example, put a general purpose relay up front near the regulator. Break the ign feed lead to the regulator, and put the relay Normally Open (NO) contacts in series.

Run two no 18's or 16's back with your cable to the trunk, hooked to the small posts on the solenoid.

Wire like this:

Starting at the point where you broke the ign feed to the regulator, hook one wire to the IGN side coming out of the bulkhead (ign run)

the wire goes back to the disconnect and back up front. Hook the other wire coming up front to your relay coil, and ground the coil.

In other words, with key on and disconnect on, the relay closes and feeds the regulator. If you either turn off the key OR the disconnect, the alternator stops charging.

Another way to do this would be to run two no 10's back to the disconnect (they may not need to be quite this big, but hey) and eliminate the relay.

In this case, hook the no 10s coming back to the small posts, and up front, once again, break the IGN RUN feed to the regulator. Hook the two no10s, one to each end of this break, and you're done.

(The reason you need either a relay or large wire for this to the rear, is this IS your battery voltage sensing lead, and now it's a "lot longer" than it used to be)

Re: Wire Size 100 amp alternator [Re: Dabee] #858164
11/20/10 06:52 PM
11/20/10 06:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 606
Montana
Y
Yancy Derringer Offline
mopar
Yancy Derringer  Offline
mopar
Y

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 606
Montana
Quote:

Wire it up like this with the relay mounted up front. That way you don't need to run the 6 guage wire all the way to the back of the car and it will kill the power and engine when the emergancy shut off is pulled.






I just realized that is not wired correctly. It won't work, and in fact, won't shut off, and the relay will be on anytime the disconnect is on

Re: Wire Size 100 amp alternator [Re: Yancy Derringer] #858165
11/20/10 07:21 PM
11/20/10 07:21 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,377
Ohio
Todd Offline
pro stock
Todd  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,377
Ohio
Thats exactly how I wired up mine. As stated before make sure you get a constant duty ford syle relay. I got mine at napa for about 30$. I don't see a problem with the diagram. When the disconnect is on woulnt you want the relay to come on and let the alt do it's job? When the disconnect is turned off it shuts off the relay and the power to the alt. Right?

Last edited by Todd; 11/20/10 07:27 PM.
Re: Wire Size 100 amp alternator [Re: Yancy Derringer] #858166
11/20/10 08:49 PM
11/20/10 08:49 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,598
Dandridge TN
D
Dabee Offline
master
Dabee  Offline
master
D

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,598
Dandridge TN
My Cuda chassis car was wired that way for years and when you turned off the kill switch everything shut down. Maybe this won’t work with production wiring. I have only used it on race cars.

Re: Wire Size 100 amp alternator [Re: Todd] #858167
11/20/10 09:33 PM
11/20/10 09:33 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 606
Montana
Y
Yancy Derringer Offline
mopar
Yancy Derringer  Offline
mopar
Y

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 606
Montana
Quote:

Thats exactly how I wired up mine. As stated before make sure you get a constant duty ford syle relay. I got mine at napa for about 30$. I don't see a problem with the diagram. When the disconnect is on woulnt you want the relay to come on and let the alt do it's job? When the disconnect is turned off it shuts off the relay and the power to the alt. Right?




Quote:

My Cuda chassis car was wired that way for years and when you turned off the kill switch everything shut down. Maybe this won’t work with production wiring. I have only used it on race cars.




No, I'm tellin you that circuit is wrong for two reasons:

First, it still shows a second wire going back to the battery, and it will have to be a heavy wire

Second, the relay is on anytime the disconnect is on---causing a battery drain. I'd guess in two or three days of sitting, the battery will be dead

I'll agree that if this is "race only" and you are RELIGIOUS about pulling the disconnect, then OK. But for a street/ strip car, this is not that great.

One way around the problem would be to install an ignition (run) operated relay with the contacts in series with the solenoid coil.

BUT YOU STILL NEED a second heavy ga. wire back to the battery.

Re: Wire Size 100 amp alternator [Re: Yancy Derringer] #858168
11/21/10 07:45 PM
11/21/10 07:45 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,120
Valencia, España
NachoRT74 Offline
master
NachoRT74  Offline
master

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,120
Valencia, España
wire size ? 8 is MORE than enough... a 100 amps alt doesn't mean will out out full 100 amps, just it has the capacity. Will offer what car demands. Hard to believe your car will demand 100 amps.

How to wire it ?... use the same battery cable to the charge system

Originally, the charging wiring runs: alt-amm-starter relay-batt.

ond this system the starter motor gets the soruce on a dif parallel main batt wire where the battery terminal end gets spliced the main wire and the car system wire ( runing to the starter relay as a splice too )

you can run it: alt-amm-starter relay-starter motor

the main wire to starter motor will finish the circuit to the batt. The Main wire is used JUST on crankin moment. The rest of time will work as a bridge between batt and alt.

Of course splice the batt wire ( starter motor ) and the starter relay wire ( coming from the rest of system ) together on same terminal


In other words:

No need to run a diff wire between alt and batt, or amm and alt... simply use the same main batt wire to complete the circuit. The only diff will be the wire original set between starter relay and batt, will be now between starter relay and starter motor



With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
Re: Wire Size 100 amp alternator [Re: NachoRT74] #858169
11/21/10 08:32 PM
11/21/10 08:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26,924
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26,924
Rio Linda, CA
Quote:

wire size ? 8 is MORE than enough... a 100 amps alt doesn't mean will out out full 100 amps, just it has the capacity. Will offer what car demands.




What if the battery is dead and you jump start it with another battery? The alternator will go to full output to try to charge the dead battery.


The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
Re: Wire Size 100 amp alternator [Re: John_Kunkel] #858170
11/21/10 08:35 PM
11/21/10 08:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,120
Valencia, España
NachoRT74 Offline
master
NachoRT74  Offline
master

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,120
Valencia, España
still will be enough, since the max output will be just for some minutes

BTDT


With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
Re: Wire Size 100 amp alternator [Re: NachoRT74] #858171
11/22/10 01:07 AM
11/22/10 01:07 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,363
Someplace you aren't
S
SomeCarGuy Offline
I Live Here
SomeCarGuy  Offline
I Live Here
S

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,363
Someplace you aren't
That is gonna be a lot of heat for a few minutes depending on how undersized the wire is.

Re: Wire Size 100 amp alternator [Re: SomeCarGuy] #858172
11/22/10 10:37 AM
11/22/10 10:37 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,120
Valencia, España
NachoRT74 Offline
master
NachoRT74  Offline
master

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,120
Valencia, España
another detail: at idle the alt NEVER puts out the max capacity even with batt dead. The condition is not rev it up.

so 8 is still safe.

more than the wire itself is more important to keep an eye on the terminals health and tightness. Note: I'm not saying wire gauge is not important.

If you see stock diagrams, your find 6 gauge to feed starter motors, and they draw up to 200 amps... true is just for the cranking moment, but on a dead battery, at iddle will never get 100 amps and whatever it pus, will be not more than 5 minutes as much... then the output power will began to decrease.

also depends on the regulator conditions.

You can use 6 gauge if you want though, won't damage anything, just harder to handle and route it!


With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1