Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Balance or Not #834012
10/19/10 06:35 PM
10/19/10 06:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 668
Hamburg, Pa.
7
72 RR DUDE Offline OP
mopar
72 RR DUDE  Offline OP
mopar
7

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 668
Hamburg, Pa.
On a 340 that has the crank already balanced would you or would you not rebalance it with the flywheel,stock rods and dampner?

Thanks Moparts

Re: Balance or Not [Re: 72 RR DUDE] #834013
10/19/10 06:55 PM
10/19/10 06:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,826
las vegas
70AARcuda Offline
master
70AARcuda  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,826
las vegas
the question would be...how much has the weight of the rods ...pistons have changed?


Tony

70 AARCuda Vitamin C
71 Dart Swinger 360 10.318 @ 128.22(10-04-14 Bakersfield)
71 Demon 360 10.666 @122.41 (01-29-17 @ Las Vegas)
71 Duster 408 (10.29 @ 127.86 3/16/19 Las Vegas)
Re: Balance or Not [Re: 72 RR DUDE] #834014
10/19/10 08:29 PM
10/19/10 08:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,976
Chilliwack B.C. Canada
R
RUNCHARGER Offline
I Live Here
RUNCHARGER  Offline
I Live Here
R

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,976
Chilliwack B.C. Canada
Need more info. Is the recip assy all matched up from a previous build? Is this a stock engine with a 6000RPM redline? Balancing is nice to do and cheap however Chrysler engines of the muscle period were notorious for having terrible balance from the factory, they were also known for kicking the crap out of and also outlasting the competition so I guess that has to tell you something.
I know everyone will now tell me what a hack I am, but thats the truth of it all.
Sheldon

Re: Balance or Not [Re: RUNCHARGER] #834015
10/19/10 08:34 PM
10/19/10 08:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,179
S.E. Conn
Hoof Hearted Offline
top fuel
Hoof Hearted  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,179
S.E. Conn
Quote:

...Chrysler engines of the muscle period were notorious for having terrible balance from the factor...

I know everyone will now tell me what a hack I am, but thats the truth of it all.
Sheldon




Never heard that before

Hack


2005 300C Hemi
2014 Ram ProMaster 2500

I Rekey, Repin old Chrysler locks and cut keys by code
Re: Balance or Not [Re: Hoof Hearted] #834016
10/19/10 09:35 PM
10/19/10 09:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 668
Hamburg, Pa.
7
72 RR DUDE Offline OP
mopar
72 RR DUDE  Offline OP
mopar
7

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 668
Hamburg, Pa.
The engine was already balanced but had very high compression pistons and I don't know what for rods. I'm going to put about 9:5 to 1 pistons in it and stock rods .I want to make it a little more then stock but not to wild since it is the original motor.

Re: Balance or Not [Re: 72 RR DUDE] #834017
10/19/10 11:13 PM
10/19/10 11:13 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
R
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
RapidRobert  Offline
Circle Track
R

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
I just bought a cheap Harbor Freight flat gram scale for ten dollars and change and it weighs as accurate (so far ) as my buddys high dollar one. rig up a fixture in addition to your dial indicator stand & get the rod level sideways and horizontally (bore centerlines level) and weigh the small end plus seperately weigh the piston/rings/pin/locks for a reciprocating weight figure then reverse the rod/level it & weigh it w the bearing halves for rotating weight. Dont forget to zero the scale for the tare weight of the fixture you rig up. post these figures or call your machinist. this will let you if you choose to (or on a future build) polish the forging marks out of the sides of the rods and a bit of judicious grinding on the piston etc all to lighten everything then just need to hand over the crank & your math & your bill will be MUCH cheaper. The scale/fixture & 2 wheels to slip on the rod to hold the 2 rod bore sizes level all is less than the labor for a shop to weigh everything since you are now paying just for spinning/drilling the crank. I'm w Sheldon I'm a stickler for it being balanced. Yes depends on the difference between the old/new. Maybe OK (close enough) as is but I cant leave anything to chance. If you do this post your differences: (4) figures

Last edited by RapidRobert; 10/19/10 11:17 PM.

live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Balance or Not [Re: 72 RR DUDE] #834018
10/20/10 08:23 AM
10/20/10 08:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,058
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Offline
I Win
JohnRR  Offline
I Win

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,058
U.S.S.A.
Quote:

The engine was already balanced but had very high compression pistons and I don't know what for rods. I'm going to put about 9:5 to 1 pistons in it and stock rods .I want to make it a little more then stock but not to wild since it is the original motor.




So you are putting different pistons and rods on replacing something of unknown weight and you are wondering if the high compression domed pistons weigh the same as the replacement pistons ??

Sure I 'll bite ... run it as is, having the rotating assembly balanced is just a money grab touted by greedy auto machinists ...


Re: Balance or Not [Re: JohnRR] #834019
02/10/11 01:27 AM
02/10/11 01:27 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
H
HYPER8oSoNic Offline
top fuel
HYPER8oSoNic  Offline
top fuel
H

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
Anything hotter than production motors, balance it. Motor lasts longer and makes more power.



"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: Balance or Not [Re: HYPER8oSoNic] #834020
02/10/11 10:27 AM
02/10/11 10:27 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,076
Niles , Ohio
T
therocks Offline
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
therocks  Offline
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
T

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,076
Niles , Ohio
Balance it.Its not that expensive and will make the motor happy.If balancing wasnt important they would not have balanced the Hemi from the factory.I agree factory wasnt great on balancing the lower end motors.Changing to different weights will make a difference in rotating weight.Rocky


Chrysler Firepower
Re: Balance or Not [Re: therocks] #834021
02/10/11 06:47 PM
02/10/11 06:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
M
moper Offline
I Live Here
moper  Offline
I Live Here
M

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
Yes, you MUST re-balance.


Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
Re: Balance or Not [Re: moper] #834022
02/10/11 07:25 PM
02/10/11 07:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1 Offline
Too Many Posts
Challenger 1  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Quote:

Yes, you MUST re-balance.




Would you explain please. What happens if he doesn't?

Re: Balance or Not [Re: 72 RR DUDE] #834023
02/10/11 07:46 PM
02/10/11 07:46 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 12,235
Looking for a way out of Middl...
IMGTX Offline
I Live Here
IMGTX  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 12,235
Looking for a way out of Middl...
I would rebalance it.

The whole point of balancing it is to match the counterweights on the crank with the weight of the rods & pistons so that the engine rotates smoothly without vibration. If you have no idea what pistons or rods were in it you have no idea if the balance would be correct with the new pistons & rods.

If you don't rebalance it you may have a nasty vibration that won't go away without a complete teardown and balance. The cost of balancing now it is cheaper than the cost of a teardown.

Re: Balance or Not [Re: IMGTX] #834024
02/10/11 08:02 PM
02/10/11 08:02 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,202
California
P
polkat Offline
mopar addict
polkat  Offline
mopar addict
P

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,202
California
If you are going back to STOCK rods and 9.5:1 pistons, then try to find a piston that are as close as possible to the weight of the STOCK pistons. You may be able to bring them closer to stock weight if they are a little bit heavy, and if so, balancing won't be necessary. If they are heavier then the stockers by more then a few grams, then yes, balance it.

This assumes that the crank and rods you use have not been molested. I have also heard that the stock balance was poor, but, I've also read that stock balance was pretty close. I think that's a toss up.

Re: Balance or Not [Re: polkat] #834025
02/10/11 08:30 PM
02/10/11 08:30 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,535
North Las Vegas
chewy Offline
pro stock
chewy  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,535
North Las Vegas
I had my 273 rebalanced when I had the machine work done. I think it was either 50 or 75 and will be well worth it. For me the main reason to balance is longevity of the engine. An out of balance lower end will wear out bearings faster and cause rod bearing failure sooner.

Even using stock .030 over 10.5:1 pistons, I had to change out one rod, and rebalanced not only for that rod, but because the pistons were +-.05 grams. Rick took a fair amount off the back of the #1 rod.







Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1