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Engine Carnage... Would you say bad luck? Long story #818152
09/30/10 12:13 AM
09/30/10 12:13 AM
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Tennessee
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727builder Offline OP
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A few weeks ago a friend of mine wanted me to drive his 66 coronet in footbrake class at a little 1/8 track. It's a 400 stroked to 512 with indy ez heads. I haven't been in it in about 6-7 months. Ran a 6.33 then with a 1.35 60ft. Was cool weather back then. Car is right @ 3600 lbs with me in it. Temp outside was high 80's to low 90's. Before the first pass I told him I was guessing it would run a 6.41 on my first pass. I had a 015 light and ran a 6.417. 2nd time trial we figured it would run a 6.40. It did and i had a 045 light. I Missed the bulb some... We figured last time trial would get a 6.39 out of it. Ran a 6.39 and i was 035 on the tree. Here's where it went bad. 4th pass was to be run for the money. We dialed it on 6.39. I ran a slower 8 sec pick up so i waited for my side of the tree to come down and i left with a 026 light and half track she just shut off, He said he saw some fire thru the headers as she died. I was thinking as i coasted it back to his pit stall that the valve train stopped. Pulled the dist cap and sure enough rotor didn't turn as we turned the crank. Got it apart and found this.....

6224195-timingchain1.jpg (258 downloads)
Last edited by 727builder; 09/30/10 12:20 AM.
Re: Engine Carnage... Would you say bad luck? Long story [Re: 727builder] #818153
09/30/10 12:14 AM
09/30/10 12:14 AM
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Tennessee
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727builder Offline OP
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2nd pic

6224197-timingchain2.jpg (242 downloads)
Re: Engine Carnage... Would you say bad luck? Long story [Re: 727builder] #818154
09/30/10 12:17 AM
09/30/10 12:17 AM
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727builder Offline OP
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Heads had 13 bent valves. No bent push rods!! Got to give a big shout out praising Smith Brothers push rods.

6224201-indyheads.jpg (193 downloads)
Re: Engine Carnage... Would you say bad luck? Long story [Re: 727builder] #818155
09/30/10 12:24 AM
09/30/10 12:24 AM
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727builder Offline OP
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We thought it was bad luck. Turns out it may have been lucky it broke? He showed me after dropping the oil pan you could wiggle the pick up tube side to side. It was cracked and had to be sucking some air. Broke off clean when he tried to unscrew it.

6224212-pickuptube.jpg (152 downloads)
Re: Engine Carnage... Would you say bad luck? Long story [Re: 727builder] #818156
09/30/10 12:30 AM
09/30/10 12:30 AM
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We he had new valves put in the heads the shop found wear marks on the washers under the valve springs that came in the Indy heads. Shop said they wasn't hardened washers. Springs were wearing groves into them.

Re: Engine Carnage... Would you say bad luck? Long story [Re: 727builder] #818157
09/30/10 12:39 AM
09/30/10 12:39 AM
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Clinton Twp... north of Deetro...
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Labratt Offline
Good Ol Randy B!
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Clinton Twp... north of Deetro...
So Indy supplied un-hardened washers with their heads? Sounds like that motor was a ticking time bomb! Hope all goes well getting it back together!!! RandyB

Re: Engine Carnage... Would you say bad luck? Long story [Re: Labratt] #818158
09/30/10 12:49 AM
09/30/10 12:49 AM
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Tennessee
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727builder Offline OP
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Im not bashing, Just going by what the machine shop told him. Any of you with Indy's ever look at the washers under your spings???
He should have engine back together this weekend. Engine had about 180 passes since he built it. Bearing looked perfect, Cut open the oil filter and didn't see any trash in it at all. Engine has the 650 lift solid comp cam. From what he figured out was cam walking in and out caused the chain to break. He's going back with a cam button and a aluminum timing cover to stop the cam movement.

Re: Engine Carnage... Would you say bad luck? Long story [Re: 727builder] #818159
09/30/10 12:56 AM
09/30/10 12:56 AM
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Clinton Twp... north of Deetro...
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Labratt Offline
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Clinton Twp... north of Deetro...
Carl..in no way was I blaming Indy for the failure of the motor! Not with what you showed,and just explained! Thank God you caught it before the pick-up tube broke off!

Re: Engine Carnage... Would you say bad luck? Long story [Re: 727builder] #818160
09/30/10 01:02 AM
09/30/10 01:02 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
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Rock Springs
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Quote:

We he had new valves put in the heads the shop found wear marks on the washers under the valve springs that came in the Indy heads. Shop said they wasn't hardened washers. Springs were wearing groves into them.




Sorry about you bad luck
Bunch's of spring shims are NOT hard'n. Thats because they are ment to be run under a spring cup, and not directly under a valve spring. I have run them this way before and never noticed a bunch of wear. Thats not what caused the carnage. probably made it much worse when you tried to crank it over.
I never liked the cast in spring cups on the Indy heads, first thing I always done was machine them off and run a spring cup/locator...


[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color]
[color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
Re: Engine Carnage... Would you say bad luck? Long story [Re: Labratt] #818161
09/30/10 01:11 AM
09/30/10 01:11 AM
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BROOK PARK, OH
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Considering what could have been I'ld say you guys got lucky.

Could have been much worse.


Glad it's not though

Re: Engine Carnage... Would you say bad luck? Long story [Re: Labratt] #818162
09/30/10 01:11 AM
09/30/10 01:11 AM
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Tennessee
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727builder Offline OP
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Quote:

Carl..in no way was I blaming Indy for the failure of the motor! Not with what you showed,and just explained! Thank God you caught it before the pick-up tube broke off!




I didnt think you was bashing. And No way was blaming indy for the chain breaking. We think that was from cam walking in and out. Just glad he found the problem with the pick up tube and the shims under the valve springs.
Could have been a lot worse damage if that pick up tube broke off during a pass.

Re: Engine Carnage... Would you say bad luck? Long story [Re: 727builder] #818163
09/30/10 10:54 PM
09/30/10 10:54 PM
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Clinton Twp... north of Deetro...
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Labratt Offline
Good Ol Randy B!
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Clinton Twp... north of Deetro...
YES!!! Could/would have been a total disaster!!! He's VERY LUCKY indeed!

Re: Engine Carnage... Would you say bad luck? Long story [Re: Labratt] #818164
09/30/10 11:00 PM
09/30/10 11:00 PM
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Charleston
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i'm a glass half full guy so i will say you got lucky.


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Re: Engine Carnage... Would you say bad luck? Long story [Re: 727builder] #818165
10/01/10 01:03 AM
10/01/10 01:03 AM
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Newport, Mi
Evil Spirit Offline
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Quote:

Engine has the 650 lift solid comp cam. From what he figured out was cam walking in and out caused the chain to break. He's going back with a cam button and a aluminum timing cover to stop the cam movement.




If it's a solid flat tappet cam the cam taper should hold the cam back in the block - it shouldn't need a button. Usually the button is a roller cam deal, since the cam isn't ground on a taper and the cam is free to float front to rear. I haven't done a lot of RB motors, but I don't remember needing cam buttons on flat tappet cams.


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Re: Engine Carnage... Would you say bad luck? Long story [Re: sixpackgut] #818166
10/01/10 01:17 AM
10/01/10 01:17 AM
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Queens, New York
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Harley Offline
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Quote:

i'm a glass half full guy so i will say you got lucky.



100%

Re: Engine Carnage... Would you say bad luck? Long story [Re: Harley] #818167
10/01/10 01:38 AM
10/01/10 01:38 AM
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United Socialist States of Ame...
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I think you got lucky...


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Re: Engine Carnage... Would you say bad luck? Long story [Re: Evil Spirit] #818168
10/01/10 02:43 AM
10/01/10 02:43 AM
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Clinton Twp... north of Deetro...
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Labratt Offline
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Clinton Twp... north of Deetro...
Evil Spirit...I was thinking the same thing myself! Never heard of a solid flat tappet needing a cam button!

Re: Engine Carnage... Would you say bad luck? Long story [Re: Labratt] #818169
10/01/10 02:48 AM
10/01/10 02:48 AM
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Clinton Twp... north of Deetro...
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Labratt Offline
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Now that I re-read the post,it states .650 solid Comp cam! Doesn't state flat tappet or roller!

Re: Engine Carnage... Would you say bad luck? Long story [Re: Labratt] #818170
10/01/10 07:26 AM
10/01/10 07:26 AM
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St. Paul , Mn.
tubtar Offline
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Who's chain ?

Just sayin...................

Re: Engine Carnage... Would you say bad luck? Long story [Re: tubtar] #818171
10/01/10 09:47 AM
10/01/10 09:47 AM
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Tennessee
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727builder Offline OP
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The cam is the comp 650 flat tappet. We never heard or thought of putting a button in with a solid cam either. But You could see marks on the timing cover where the 3 cam bolts were moving forward and hitting the timing chain cover. He was told that may have caused to chain be stressed and break. Chain was from Hughes engines.

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