First some background, '72 Charger, power steering, everything in front end new. Moog offset upper control arm bushings, new 1 inch torsion bars, etc. This is the second time I have had the car at the alignment shop, the first time the tech put everything into the specs "as close as he could get them". These are the specs I got out of the tech archives. (Camber: -.50 to 0 degrees, Caster: As much positive as you can get up to 3 degrees, Toe-in: 1/16th-1/8th inch). Car wandered all over the place. Took the car back yesterday, different tech worked on it, (he has done 2 other old mopars for me). He said there was no way he could even come close getting it set to the specs out of the archive. He said he did the best he could. I had him print out the specs, here they are. Left front caster 1.2 degrees, Right front caster 1.0 degrees. Left front camber 0.2 degrees, Right front camber -0.2 degrees. Left front toe 0.02", Right front toe -0.00". Now the car is more stable than it was before, but still not right. It turns "in" very quickly, and at speeds above 60 m.p.h. it wants to wander. Not as bad as before, but still enough to bother me. Can anyone tell me what might be the problem. The tech suggested that the machine shop might have pressed the offset upper control arm bushings in wrong. When I sent the control arms to the machine shop, I included instructions I printed off of this site or maybe another site that showed how they should be pressed in. Any help would be most appreciated. Thank you in advance.

Reid.

There was a post here recently about using offset bushings. Owners said do not install per instructions! Install one bushing with the offset in & one with the offset out on the same side. This is supposed to get you more adjustability. Do a search here.

I don't know why this comes up so often..The second set of specs needs a little more pos caster. My guess is that the offsets that need to be installed backwards for more caster, were installed as per the directions.

Remember, these bushings were intended to compensate for sagging frames, not to increase caster, hence the directions.

The toe is also a little off, as its going to need a 1/16 total, or very close to that. You can run less toe if as you solidfy the strut rod connection to the frame, ie urethane bushing or solid bushing/heim arrangement.

Hope this helps.

Individual cars differ, and there is a limit to how well you will ever get an old mass-produced Mopar to track, compared to the behavior of modern samples. That being said, you should pursue increasing your caster to improve things. The higher the caster (balanced side-to-side), the less the tendency to wander. Note that if you set one side significantly different than the other, the car will tend to pull towards the side with the lower reading. As the tech alluded to, the upper control arm eccentrics have a limit to their travel. As a former alignment mechanic, I suggest you look into two areas:

1. Is there anything you can compromise on in the area of ride height?

2. Were the offset bushings really installed in a manner to increase caster?

1. Ride height

Many people prefer the looks of a car that has the tail in the air and/or the nose dropped. If your car is that way (with a significant downward rake rear-to-front), be aware that every additional degree of rake is reducing your caster one degree. I am not suggesting that you raise the car's nose into the sky, but if you lowered the T-bars any, that contributed to your situation. Disclaimer: Any ride height change now will require yet another trip to the alignment rack.

2. "Problem solver" bushings.

The "problem" these bushings were originally designed to solve was too little CAMBER. Therefore, the installation sheet that is included in the box with them instructs you to install them to achieve that end. IGNORE THAT INSTRUCTION SHEET. Instead, install them so as to shift the upper ball joint rearward, as shown in the diagram below.

You just need more toe. Sure, more caster will help it return on center, but you don't have enough toe, and if there is any play in the suspension parts, which there usually is, you are probably toe out going down the road and it will be impossible to drive straight and feel scary at speed. You can add the toe in a few minutes, instead of thinking about reworking the suspension to increase caster.
-dulcich

68HemiB, that picture you posted was the exact thing I printed out and took to the machine shop. I guess I should have double checked their work, but I figured they were a competent shop so I never looked.

Dulcich, I can adjust the toe a small amount without having to have the whole car realigned, correct?

The tech said that to get more caster, it was pushing the tops of the tires out. That is why he suggested that the bushings may have been installed incorrectly.

Thanks again, Reid.

Sorry, I missed the part about the offet bushing having already been installed. Yes, first step is to check which way they put the offset into it. Personally, I have never used the offset bushings. I sure wouldn't take it for granted that they are installed in the required orientation. It could have been done wrong, especially since there isn't much caster with them installed and the adjustment maxed out.

Start there.

More toe would definately help, but I would suggest making sure there wasn't an assembly error with the bushings before starting to fine-tune the alignment.
-dulcich

You can see when I ran offset UCA bushings you can see the washer even poking out past the frame slot. Whereas the rear looks buried back there.

Ok one way I just noticed how to cheat checking this is to look the pressed in side washer postion relative the bushing casing.

Notice that in the right bushing the washer is off-center to the bushing casing, downward in the picture.

The left side is the opposite with the washer off-center upward in the picture.

This is a driver side UCA. Click on "attachment" to see a much bigger detailed picture.

i agree.
..shoot for as much as 1/8 toe and you'll probably solve your problem.

All the above thread seems to assume that everything is "right" and the angles are just set wrong / less than optimum, etc. However...

It is possible that there are other factors at work here, such as bent rail, bent suspension part, loose UCA tubes (in K-mem), defective K (welded crooked, not that uncommon), etc.

If the alignment shop is cooperative, ask them to check steering axis inclination, bump steer (toe at rest, then full jounce, then full rebound), camber pattern, etc.

You can do a quick eyeball K-member / bent part check (doesn't check everything, but it is a start) by looking (1) at the centerlink: Gotta be level; and, (2) at the tie rods, angles gotta be identical on both sides.

I have seen MANY cars that were properly static aligned either to factory specs, or to "performance" settings (gotta have at least a skosh of neg camber in my book), and still drove scary!

Also, don't count out REAR suspension problems, broken leafs, shot front bushing, etc.

We are also assuming that the steering box is good.

Rick Ehrenberg

Moparguy383, how did this car drive before you rebuilt the suspension?

Dumb question, but are the upper control arms installed on the correct side of the car, and not swapped?

OK, Hard to diagnose a car over the internet (smile) but have you done/checked the strut rod bushings? If you changed them, did you reuse the original sleeves or cut the ones that came in the kit to the same length as originals?

This often overlooked detail plays havoc with the front end alignment almost as much as worn or pounded out strut rod bushings. I change all mine to the heim joint type from RMS.

Hope that helps!

John P.

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I am going to check the upper control arm bushings to see if they are installed correctly. I don't know if I can get the alignment shop to check all of the things that Rick mentioned, they seem like they just want to get you in and out. I will also do a visual check for the K member/bent parts, (centerlink level, tie rod angles match etc.). The rear suspension is all new as well, springs, bushings, shocks, hangers, etc. Steering box is nice and tight. I never drove the car before, I bought it as a roller and went to work. I replaced the strut rod bushings with new energy suspension poly bushings. I cant remember if they came with new sleeves, or I reused the old ones, I will check that also. I have a bunch of double checking to do, thanks again.

Reid.