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I'm a work truck. Help my owner design my new 408? #790986
09/02/10 07:01 PM
09/02/10 07:01 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,245
State of Jefferson
hooziewhatsit Offline OP
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hooziewhatsit  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2007
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State of Jefferson
Greetings all! Since my owner has been busy recently, I decided to post this for him, since I know he needs help designing my new 408cid heart.

First off, a few things about myself. I am a '72 W200, and am a bona fide work truck. I have 4.10s and 32"s behind a 727. I weigh 5600lbs (hey, I'm big boned!) and live at 4400' elevation. I only have E10 swill to drink in flavors of 87, 89, and 91. I'll spend most of my time pulling horses and ferrying other stuff around. He's going to feed me with a Ford 5.0l fuel injection set up.

My current ticker (a 318) is getting long in the tooth, and I really show my age when my owner makes me pull the horses

Recently he got a '96 5.9l short block that's already punched 0.030" over. He still needs to get the stroker kit, heads, and probably get the cam reground. That's the area he needs most help with. Most other builds he's seen are for 7000 rpm race cars, which I am definitely not I won't see anything much over 4500 rpms.

While he could get junkyard 318 mag heads for $25 each, I'm hoping he'll get me some new RHS or EQ heads. Any thoughts? He's also looked at the Hughes stroker kit with a 4" arm. He definitely wants to build my new heart with quench in mind. What compression should he aim for? Any particular cam profiles that would give me a lot of low-end grunt?

Most of all he's looking for reliability; despite what you might think, heart transplants hurt, and I only want to go through one!

Thanks!

()


If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
Re: I'm a work truck. Help my owner design my new 408? [Re: hooziewhatsit] #790987
09/02/10 08:54 PM
09/02/10 08:54 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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the 4" stroker, definitely quench, maybe even as tight as .035" (otherwise .040" is the norm) since it's a low rpm work truck but you'd for sure want to measure/machine piston deck height/piston rock on each cyl. maybe ~10 to 1. EQ heads. Not sure on a cam recommendation.


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: I'm a work truck. Help my owner design my new 408? [Re: hooziewhatsit] #790988
09/02/10 11:50 PM
09/02/10 11:50 PM
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Kalispell Mt.
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HotRodDave Offline
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I would call up Dan at performance only in florida and get a SCAT cast crank and I beam rods, whatever forged pistons you can get cheapest with about a 20CC dish, probalby wiseco. If you can find some good magnum heads in the JY for cheap slap them on with a performer RPM air-gap intake from hughes that is set up for EFI. For the cam get it re-ground to about 210@.050 single pattern with around .500 lift with the mag 1.6 rockers and a 114 LSA. Swap on some GM V6-3100 3500 valve springs and retainers. Should make a TON of low end TQ. If you can not find the factory heads cheap then get witchever EQ or RHS is cheaper.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: I'm a work truck. Help my owner design my new 408? [Re: HotRodDave] #790989
09/03/10 02:44 AM
09/03/10 02:44 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,245
State of Jefferson
hooziewhatsit Offline OP
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hooziewhatsit  Offline OP
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State of Jefferson
Thanks for the replies.

I was swagging about aiming for 9.5:1, so 10:1 seems reasonable with good quench. A secondary goal is good mileage (Ha!), so this would help eek a little more out. After I'm done with the engine I'm going to look for a 518/46rh to swap in.

I found a set of 318 mag heads at the junkyard last time, but I think the truck had ~200k on it They're only $25 each, but would probably take quite a bit to rework. Unless I just threw them on with new springs and called it good. Is there a difference between the mag 318 & 360 heads?

Looked up that Hughes intake Link $600 But they claim up to +6mpg

I was also considering the MP MPI FI intake from summit for half the price link

Those cam specs seem reasonable.

Oh yea, would a girdle be a good thing to have with this build? I was already planning on main studs instead of bolts. I don't think I'll need head studs at this point. (?)

I might just grab the JY heads while I'm there. I may end up not having enough $$$ for new heads and the hughes intake at the same time


If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
Re: I'm a work truck. Help my owner design my new 408? [Re: hooziewhatsit] #790990
09/03/10 09:26 AM
09/03/10 09:26 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,102
Grand Haven, MI
patrick Offline
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patrick  Offline
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Grand Haven, MI
are you planning on keeping the EFI or switch to carb?

carb, get an edelbrock air gap RPM, and run an 800 eddie, or if you have room a spread bore adapter and demonsizzler TQ.

cam, get it reground by bullet using the HR259/316, HR258/320, or HR262/312 lobes for both intake and exhaust

get the heads redone, get the seats opened up to ~1.905/1.61"--the stock valve job is undersized enough to be able to run 1.88/1.6 valves. do a 30/45/60/ and a 75 or 80 degree bowl cut, then blend the bowls, and open up the pushrod pinch a bit.

use hughes #1110 springs, with retainers sourced from a couple junkyard 2.2L or 2.5L chryslers.

I'd use a scat cast crank, stock rods or scat I beams, and probably the KB pistons with the quench dome cut off (if you have cheap access to a machine shop), or any dish in the 18-22cc range.

use headers.

should be near 400hp, and probably 500+ lb feet below 3000 rpm...


1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD 1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!*** 2006 Inferno Red Dodge Caravan SXT 2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
Re: I'm a work truck. Help my owner design my new 408? [Re: patrick] #790991
09/03/10 03:30 PM
09/03/10 03:30 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,245
State of Jefferson
hooziewhatsit Offline OP
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hooziewhatsit  Offline OP
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I'll be going with EFI for sure.

Are the Iron Ram heads decent enough?Link Or would the RHS be that much better?

I'll have to research the Scat crank/rods/pistons, and will probably bump this again to make sure they'll all work together

Quote:

should be near 400hp, and probably 500+ lb feet below 3000 rpm...




Thanks for the replies


If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
Re: I'm a work truck. Help my owner design my new 408? [Re: hooziewhatsit] #790992
09/03/10 03:51 PM
09/03/10 03:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,102
Grand Haven, MI
patrick Offline
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patrick  Offline
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Grand Haven, MI
iron rams OOTB flow about what a slightly modded OEM casting does with the mods I suggested. for this app, I'd use the iron rams.

for simplicity, you could always do EFI using the FAST EZ-EFI TB or MPI setup...

if using a stock magnum throttle body, have the bores machined out to a straight 50mm and blend to top. it uses 50mm blades, but necks down to ~43 above them stock...


1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD 1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!*** 2006 Inferno Red Dodge Caravan SXT 2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
Re: I'm a work truck. Help my owner design my new 408? [Re: patrick] #790993
09/06/10 12:57 AM
09/06/10 12:57 AM
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Not2farfromNashville, TN
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Rug_Trucker Offline
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Lots of compression, water injection, polished chambers.

Forged pistons Dave? Why? Heavy IMO.

Tri-Y headers or magnum manifolds.

Gasket matched intake ports on the head side only. If using iron maifolds on exhaust side? Gasket matche the manifold only. What you are attempting to do is cuase an anti-reversion effect. I did that on a slant for a friends 833OD '81 B100 van that is a work truck. Lots of torque!

Mild porting. Excellent bowl work.

I'd be leary of running an RPM intake in Virginia in the winter time with a carb. I have ran my van with a Offy Dual Port with the heat riser block off in TN. It warms up really quick. It isn't an airgap.


"The only thing to do for triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

"NUNQUAM NON PARATUS!"
Re: I'm a work truck. Help my owner design my new 408? [Re: Rug_Trucker] #790994
09/06/10 02:07 AM
09/06/10 02:07 AM
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Kalispell Mt.
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HotRodDave Offline
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I had some wiseco dished pistons that weighed 467 grams and came with rings for about the same price as a KB356 hyper piston that weighed 484 grams. You will lose a few grams milling the dome but it will end up costing more than the wisecos, especially if you get some good quality rings with the KB since the wisecos come with good rings.

There is not gonna be much differance between the weights of the different piston brands unless you get CNC lightneing and such. The SCAT I beam rods on the other hand will be over 110 grams lighter than stock rods.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: I'm a work truck. Help my owner design my new 408? [Re: Rug_Trucker] #790995
09/06/10 09:46 AM
09/06/10 09:46 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,102
Grand Haven, MI
patrick Offline
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patrick  Offline
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Grand Haven, MI
Quote:


I'd be leary of running an RPM intake in Virginia in the winter time with a carb. I have ran my van with a Offy Dual Port with the heat riser block off in TN. It warms up really quick. It isn't an airgap.




bah, I'm running an RPM air gap and electric choke eddie 600 year round in michigan, never had a problem with cold starts

another thought, since it won't be a high revver, I'd balance externally to 360 specs, and maybe even stick with stock rods (with ARP bolts)

Last edited by patrick; 09/06/10 09:47 AM.

1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD 1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!*** 2006 Inferno Red Dodge Caravan SXT 2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
Re: I'm a work truck. Help my owner design my new 408? [Re: patrick] #790996
09/07/10 03:39 AM
09/07/10 03:39 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,245
State of Jefferson
hooziewhatsit Offline OP
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hooziewhatsit  Offline OP
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Posts: 3,245
State of Jefferson
I currently have some cheapie hedman long tube headers I was planning on moving on to the new engine.

I picked up a set of 318 mag heads this last weekend at the junkyard. If nothing else I'll have something to practice porting on, as the truck had 233k on it. The Iron Ram stock replacements for $725 are looking pretty good...

Re: keeping the stock rods
I have no good idea how many miles were on this engine, although it was supposedly rebuilt 500 miles ago. I was just presuming for a performance rebuild I'd need new pistons & rods, and then might as well add a stroker crank I still need to take apart the bottom end and see how it looks.

I came across this listing on flebay. With the 62cc Iron Rams it should work out to roughly ~10:1. I'm guessing it's a cast scat crank, with scat I beam rods. I wish it included more information about the brand of the pistons, rings and bearings.

Thanks for the help


If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
Re: I'm a work truck. Help my owner design my new 408? [Re: hooziewhatsit] #790997
09/07/10 12:17 PM
09/07/10 12:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,061
New Mexico
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dmerc Offline
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New Mexico
I have a 4x4 grind cam in my Duster. Makes great power and I get good gas mileage. As Hotrod Dave said if you go with a cast (stroker) crank and rods with Weisco pistons you can have the rotating assembly internally balanced too. The only thing I don't know is how this set up would work pulling heavy loads.


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