Re: Hotchkis Suspension Kits?
[Re: 440custom]
#774337
08/15/10 07:09 PM
08/15/10 07:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,596 So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,596
So Cal
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I've already had LOTS of suspension mods done to my car over the last 16 years (since 1994). With those mods I've driven it 70,000 miles, daily commuted 80 mile through Los Angeles for 4 years, driving it from L.A. to Iowa and back 4 times, snow/salt/rain/sleet, been to 14 different states, autocrosses, and road course tracks days etc, etc. My Cuda has had lots of combinations of tires, rims, shocks, swaybars. Like I've run no less than 4 different rims sizes, 4 tires sizes, 4 different brands of shocks (Herb Adams, Koni, KYB, QA1), 4 Swaybars (early stock, late stock, 1 1/8, 1 1/4). This is not the first suspension setup on my Cuda. Not hardly. Well, I'm totally impressed at all the improvements that the Hotchkis TVS made that I added about a month ago. After all that fiddling around for 16 years this is hands down the best system and combination of parts. A game changer for me. For all those 16 years, my car had .99" torsion bars. Those are 65% more spring rate than stock. It's a stiffer ride, but not like you might think. BUT the shocks didn't seem to control things. When I hit long dips or pavement separation the seat belt would pull me down and stuff like that. Now with the TVS shocks and their system, I don't feel that. The kicker is I just installed 1.14" torsion bars with the TVS system. !! Ok, those are BIG bars. Those are THREE TIMES stock rate and 57% more rate than the .99" t-bars. Those are way bigger than I would expect most to run on their car... You know, with the TVS system the big T-bars are nicer riding than the smaller .99 T-bars. I was sort of shocked. With .99 bars it would be even better. I really notice how good it tracks on long soft freeway/interstate curves. I've taken it hard on some tight freeway on ramps and it just bites and grips. Problem now I'm comming out of the seat on fast tight turn like that. I'm bracing my knee against the center console. I already have a decent side bolster seat, but I need bigger bolster and a 3 point seat belt. It tracks really nice and stable up to 100 mph or so on the freeway. But I have a bad water pump bearing in this temporary motor so I'm taking it easy.
Last edited by autoxcuda; 08/15/10 07:18 PM.
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Re: Hotchkis Suspension Kits?
[Re: autoxcuda]
#774338
08/15/10 08:50 PM
08/15/10 08:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,596 So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,596
So Cal
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This is what some of the rear Hotchkis stuff looks like installed.
The rear sway bar is three way adjustable to dial in the balance of the car. It is also hollow so it doesn't add much unsprung weight at all. The dogbone type rear sway bar end links allow the rear to move up and down bind free.
The doughnut type rear sway bar bushings will add resistance if they are not absolutely perfectly installed to the right height and placement fore and aft.
Last edited by autoxcuda; 08/16/10 12:39 AM.
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Re: Hotchkis Suspension Kits?
[Re: DennisH ]
#774340
08/16/10 12:03 AM
08/16/10 12:03 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,323 NY NY
340duster340
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,323
NY NY
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check out firmfeel.com
their stuff is awesome.
1966 Dart GT
...down to only 1 mopar for the first time in 15 years!
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Re: Hotchkis Suspension Kits?
[Re: autoxcuda]
#774343
08/16/10 07:13 AM
08/16/10 07:13 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862 the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
Swears too much
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Swears too much
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
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I've yet to actually phone anyone up and ask this, but i wonder if any ov these complete suspension systems could be ordered with a custom ride-height. Or for that matter, if they'd even work with more ride-height. I've been saving for a big kit for a long while now, first it was the XV stage I kit, now this comes along. I'm sure there are others. But they all involve lowering my Challenger.
I dont want to lower my Challenger. In fact, i'd like to actually retain the stock T/A ride height, with the slightly raked rear.
I realize why cars are lowered, and all the science involved, as well as i understand that there would be an obvious compromise with a higher car (likely transition from side to side at speed would suffer the most), but i wonder if these companies would even touch a request for a stock or higher ride height.... . . .
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Re: Hotchkis Suspension Kits?
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#774346
08/16/10 11:38 AM
08/16/10 11:38 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,596 So Cal
autoxcuda
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,596
So Cal
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Quote:
Also, would anyone here have any idea how much total weight one ov these full systems would add to an otherwise bone stock car? Say, a car with the R/T level stock suspension?
I'm thinking there is an overall weight penalty for all this wonderful handling, but how much...??? Bad enough that mounting some REAL wheels and tires and stiffening the chassis bumps the scale a bunch...
The front and rear sway bar are tubular and don't weight any more than stock. Upper control arms won't add anything either. Their rear leafs do weigh less than stock. On mine just lifting them I'd say 5-10 pounds each. Only real weight adder is the subframe connectors.
When you net that out with the rear spring savings I'd bet you'd only be adding 20 lbs. Maybe less. And that's all low weight in the center of the car.
I'd bet an aluminum 17x9 with 275/40/17 tires it would be no more than a steel 15x7 ralley with trim rings and center caps.
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Re: Hotchkis Suspension Kits?
[Re: autoxcuda]
#774348
08/16/10 07:50 PM
08/16/10 07:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862 the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
Swears too much
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Swears too much
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
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Quote:
Quote:
Also, would anyone here have any idea how much total weight one ov these full systems would add to an otherwise bone stock car? Say, a car with the R/T level stock suspension?
I'm thinking there is an overall weight penalty for all this wonderful handling, but how much...??? Bad enough that mounting some REAL wheels and tires and stiffening the chassis bumps the scale a bunch...
The front and rear sway bar are tubular and don't weight any more than stock. Upper control arms won't add anything either. Their rear leafs do weigh less than stock. On mine just lifting them I'd say 5-10 pounds each. Only real weight adder is the subframe connectors.
When you net that out with the rear spring savings I'd bet you'd only be adding 20 lbs. Maybe less. And that's all low weight in the center of the car.
I'd bet an aluminum 17x9 with 275/40/17 tires it would be no more than a steel 15x7 ralley with trim rings and center caps.
I thought it was more the little things that added up, stuff like thicker tie rod ends, thicker T-bars, thicker everything really. I am surprised the leafs dont weigh more. Interesting.
When it comes time, i'll be replacing 15x8 steelies (just caps) and 295/50/15 radial TA's with 17x9 and wider rear, with as much tire as i can stuff in there. If you dont spend the money, those rims are heavy, The tires are 30+ each. Thats the worst weight possible too, unsprung and rotating. Ov course, its not optional, but its still heavy. Drag racers have it so easy...
And yes, these kits are a ton ov money. Heh... thats why i'm still saving. I have a pretty good set-up on the 72 Charger (all poly, KYB's, fact HP springs, lowered, BFG 295's) but it never really impressed me. I never quite got around to tuning it, the springs are still stock and the tires blow, but i still expected more. I think a decent portion ov those big kit prices is the engineering that went into them. That is pretty much what i'm paying for. I'd expect the kit to work very well for that price.
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Re: Hotchkis Suspension Kits?
[Re: autoxcuda]
#774349
08/16/10 07:58 PM
08/16/10 07:58 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 203 Sante Fe Springs, CA
Hotchkis
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 203
Sante Fe Springs, CA
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Steve - It's great to hear that you are enjoying the Hotchkis parts. It means a lot for us to hear that, as we know how long you've been interested in handling and performance driving. Dennis, Pale Roader and all - The weight difference of the TVS is minimal, and on our resident drag racer Elana's car, she saw no difference in E.T. but reported a noticeable improvement in street handling and even on-strip tracking. She said it requires less correction in a straight line. The ride height is set on the leaf springs, the lowering is an important part of improving handling. That said, it is still adjustable through torsion bar settings, and we haven't had clearance problems on our R&D cars. You can watch the full install to see how well our parts fit when compared to many competitors. The car in the video is a good example of the difference the Hotchkis suspension makes, even compared to junkyard and bushing upgrades. This car had full poly bushings, Mopar Performance rear springs, large torsion bars, heavy duty shocks and a factory sway bar. The Hotchkis components made for a dramatic difference in lap and slalom times.
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Re: Hotchkis Suspension Kits?
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#774350
08/16/10 09:08 PM
08/16/10 09:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 104,346 Garden Grove, CA
OzHemi
Penguin-hating Ginger
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Penguin-hating Ginger
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 104,346
Garden Grove, CA
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Quote:
When it comes time, i'll be replacing 15x8 steelies (just caps) and 295/50/15 radial TA's with 17x9 and wider rear, with as much tire as i can stuff in there. If you dont spend the money, those rims are heavy, The tires are 30+ each. Thats the worst weight possible too, unsprung and rotating. Ov course, its not optional, but its still heavy. Drag racers have it so easy...
I was thinking about wheel weights too... https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...ID=#Post6143474
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Re: Hotchkis Suspension Kits?
[Re: Hotchkis]
#774353
08/17/10 12:48 AM
08/17/10 12:48 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,596 So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
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So Cal
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Quote:
... This car had full poly bushings, Mopar Performance rear springs, large torsion bars, heavy duty shocks and a factory sway bar....
I think this is a key statement. That 440 Challenger was IMHO better off to start than your 72 Charger is now is Pale Roader. It was not really stock as the graph labels it. It had the same stuff you have plus I'm pretty postive it had .99 T-bars in it to start with. Those are 25% stiffer than stock 440, quite significant. And a fairly new set of MP HD leaf springs.
With the factory .92 440 R/T Torsion Bars I guarantee the skid pad numbers would be less than .78 as a baseline.
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Re: Hotchkis Suspension Kits?
[Re: autoxcuda]
#774354
08/17/10 02:32 AM
08/17/10 02:32 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,596 So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,596
So Cal
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Quote:
... This car had full poly bushings, Mopar Performance rear springs, large torsion bars, heavy duty shocks and a factory sway bar....
I think this is a key statement. That 440 Challenger was IMHO better off to start than your 72 Charger is now is Pale Roader. It was not really stock as the graph labels it. It had the same stuff you have plus I'm pretty postive it had .99 T-bars in it to start with. Those are 25% stiffer than stock 440, quite significant. And a fairly new set of MP HD leaf springs. Also, KYB shocks. I was out at the track the day they swapped all the before and after stuff on the blue Challenger. I have detailed pictures of it if anyone is interested?
With the factory .92 440 R/T Torsion Bars I guarantee the skid pad numbers would be less than .78 as a baseline.
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