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Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: Paul Jacobs] #77102
07/05/08 11:16 PM
07/05/08 11:16 PM
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David Walden
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Quote:

Dave,
I have been looking at all my original photos (about 2000) of cars and I have come to the conclusionn you are right about the AC cars having that specific hose.




Paul,
Please tell me your secret!!! I can't express ONE point on this forum without someone taking offense and arguing until the cows come home. How come no one seems to challenge your concurring input?

Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: Alaskan_TA] #77103
07/05/08 11:20 PM
07/05/08 11:20 PM
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Hose on Juliano's before mentioned survivor 71 Hemi Charger

Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: Alaskan_TA] #77104
07/05/08 11:23 PM
07/05/08 11:23 PM
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David Walden
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Quote:

If I send you a dollar will you please stop calling them build sheets? They do say broadcast sheet right at the top. Pleeeeease?




What were they used for Barry and how did you know what I was even referring to? (You might want to recant that statement about facetious posts. If you didn't noticed the MANY that are constantly directed towards me you are probably not paying close enough attention.)

Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: ECS] #77105
07/05/08 11:25 PM
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Dave,
Because your a condesending, uppety, conceited, annoying, loudmouth, know it all jerk (of course you know Im being a smartXXX) Did I forget anything?? As we spoke about the other day-it is hard for some to deviate from what has been accepted as truth for so long. I think you should explain to others what you told me-of ignorance and finding the truth from research instead of accepted opinions. Though we all try to contribute on these boards, we are sometimes wrong (as I have been too before!).
I have been messing with these cars for 20 years and I still learn something new ALMOST everyday. This has been a great discussion on this upper hose! Keepem coming.

Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: ECS] #77106
07/05/08 11:37 PM
07/05/08 11:37 PM
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Well, since you asked....

They were used to "broadcast" everything that was needed to assemble each particular car to the far corners of each sub-assembly area of the assembly plant.

The trim shop where the front seat(s) were assembled "heard" the broadcast.

So did the trim shop for the rear seats.

So did the assembly area for the dash frames / gauge clusters.

.........and on and on, thus the name "broadcast", the information needed was broadcast to everyone that needed to know.

If you liken it to a radio broadcast of the news where everyone hears the same thing at the same time, that is pretty much how it worked inside the plants. Each assembly section "heard" what they needed to know and did their part.

The only difference was that the "broadcast" was printed on paper so they could read which each car needed and what they had to do to make it happen. Each sub-assembly area had it's own printer.

Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: Paul Jacobs] #77107
07/05/08 11:38 PM
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Hose on Juliano's 71 Hemi Cuda Reynolds car.

Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: Paul Jacobs] #77108
07/05/08 11:42 PM
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I love you too Paul! Seriously, take a look at your pictures. Your Challenger hose is shaped a little different from the Hemi ones but is just about dead on with the bends that I have on mine. How would the factory have known to change the upper hose on an A/C car if the build sheet states a #257? Did the A/C cars automatically get the "different" hose on or at the assembly line? Mine did not come with any numbers or tags so I can't reference the exact number...just the correct shape!

Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: Alaskan_TA] #77109
07/05/08 11:48 PM
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I know....and Ed Norton was an underground engineer. Tomato-Tomatoe! They were used to help the employees build the car. I promise I won't ask you to change your view to accommodate me Barry. And with that same respect, I really don't care what you decide to call them!

Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: ECS] #77110
07/05/08 11:50 PM
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I'll send you the dollar anyway.



Have a good night Dave.

Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: anlauto] #77111
07/06/08 07:26 AM
07/06/08 07:26 AM
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Quote:


As far as judging is concerned, in my opinion, even though the hose looks correct and matches that of several reference photos, it would be hard to argue that the BCS is wrong....would it not?

AGAIN...I always ASSUMED the BCS was Gospel when restoring a car? But it's clear that yours could be wrong ?




Let me clarify my question....I never stated that BCS were always perfect, but I did refer to them being "Gospel" meaning that an OE level judge would have to take that as the final word as far as options, etc... (unless the cars owner has air-tight proof of a dealer installed option)

Wouldn't the same hold true for parts or componets of the car such as hoses, suspension parts, shocks (that's another good one) etc...?
If BCS in question calls for a 257 and we all agree that it looks nothing like the "humped" hose on 99% of the AC cars...

How will a judge make the call? Can he (judge) over-rule whats printed on the BCS?

Is it safe to assume that two hoses could have got the same part number

For every picture of original AC cars with the "humped" hose we have an equal amount of non-AC cars with the straight hose and yet we have both ac and non ac cars with 57 on the BCS I wouldn't want to be a OE Level judge that's for sure.....

Great thread guys....lets keep the info coming


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Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: anlauto] #77112
07/06/08 09:23 AM
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Quote:

If BCS in question calls for a 257 and we all agree that it looks nothing like the "humped" hose on 99% of the AC cars...




Again, maybe all of these years there has been an incorrect assumption for a hose that was not necessarily correct. What if the A/C hose WAS the correct 257 style (from the factory) in 1969-1970?

Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: anlauto] #77113
07/06/08 09:32 AM
07/06/08 09:32 AM
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Quote:

Is it safe to assume that two hoses could have got the same part number



I seriously Doubt it





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Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: gtx6970] #77114
07/06/08 10:46 AM
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How about two hoses ending in "57" hence the BCS code but having a different 4 digit pre-fix number.....
I don't have any part number books earlier then 71 so I'm only throwing that idea out there


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Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: anlauto] #77115
07/06/08 11:25 AM
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Ok, I looked at my broadcast sheets today and here's what I found. All 5 cars (1969-1970 B bodies)with A/C call for the 257 Radiator hose on the broadcast sheet-even my original car-which had in fact a 2806186 on it! So it clearly did not conform to the broadcast sheet. The 186 hose was listed for 67,68 B with air and 67-71 HEMI. It was obviously used on HEMI's to clear the fuel lines but it appears they continued to use this shape and later changed (mid 68) to part #2863230 (listed as used from 68-73). This hose also shows up on original HEMI cars as I showed in photos though it was never listed in the books as that application! Dave-I would be glad to fax you these sheets if you would like.

Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: Paul Jacobs] #77116
07/06/08 01:15 PM
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Thanks for the information Paul. I will call you tomorrow to continue the fun of all of this. I am starting to believe that when a car had A/C, it was suppose to receive the “variation?” hose even though the build sheet might have specified the #257. There are a few things on these A/C cars that are different from the many non A/C cars I have been involved with researching. Paul had mentioned my “truth from research instead of accepted opinions” for documenting the facts. It is simply this: I know absolutely nothing about ANY of the aspects pertaining to these cars“. Seriously! When you take that attitude there are no preconceived ideas or beliefs. You approach things with an open mind so there are never any surprises. When we simply accept the traditional opinions as fact, with no interest in doing our own research, there is always the possibility for error and misinterpretation. Along these same lines I would suggest that no one take my word for anything. Please check out these claims and investigate them for yourselves! I do promise that anything I post or pass along will not just be my (or anyone else’s) “opinion“. Besides, it is fun to go out to various places to document these un restored cars and meet the people who own them. I can honestly state that I would trade all the information that I know about these cars, for all of the things that I am unaware of concerning them!

Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: ECS] #77117
07/06/08 01:18 PM
07/06/08 01:18 PM
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Barry, I made an incorrect comment pertaining to Dave Stuart's Challenger. He sent me this PM correcting my statement:

"Dave - you posted that my challenger doesnt have a 26 in rad - it DOES have a 26 in rad. and a 57 upper hose. The difference is that it is an early build and has a three core rad - later ones have a 4 core. Dave."

Sorry guys!

Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: ECS] #77118
07/06/08 01:34 PM
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who originally attached the upper/inlet/return radiator hose to the engine before it was installed on the assembly line or even arrived at the car assembly plant (ref: '68 Charger photo above)? If the hose and the A/C were done (mounted/installed) at the engine assembly plant then the broadcast sheet info ("57") was for whom?

Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: A12] #77119
07/06/08 01:46 PM
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You may have just added some insight to this scenario. I don’t know what sequence or who installed the hoses but if it was done at the engine assembly plant, they may have installed this hose on A/C equipped cars. The 257 hose could have been the “universal” hose unless the vehicle had the A/C option. Rather that spin off in another of area of speculation, do you (A12) agree that the A/C cars had this different style of “hump” hose from the factory?

Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: ECS] #77120
07/06/08 02:12 PM
07/06/08 02:12 PM
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http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/images/misc/robin2.jpg

I wonder if the AC cars had the hose installed at the engine assembly plant due to the compressor?

Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: ECS] #77121
07/06/08 02:18 PM
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Quote:

You may have just added some insight to this scenario. I don’t know what sequence or who installed the hoses but if it was done at the engine assembly plant, they may have installed this hose on A/C equipped cars. The 257 hose could have been the “universal” hose unless the vehicle had the A/C option. Rather that spin off in another of area of speculation, do you (A12) agree that the A/C cars had this different style of “hump” hose from the factory?




Yes I agree most production line or what are assumed original hoses on A/C cars (that I've seen since this thread) do appear to have a "hump" for what would be assumed for additional A/C belt clearance on a big block engine.

I'd love to see engine assembly plant photos to see just exactly what was with the engines when they left the engine assembly plant headed for the car assembly plant. The engines had part numbers (i.e., 899 on the 383 A/C engine for a '69 Super Bee) so I would assume that meant they had the A/C already on the engine as a complete assembly. I haven't looked to see what else is on a broadcast sheet that was already on an engine assembly to ask the question again "WHY"?

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