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Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question [Re: FuryBoy] #769986 08/10/10 02:55 AM 08/10/10 02:55 AM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA Kern Dog Striving for excellence
Kern Dog Striving for excellence Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA	Quote: imho... Dyno numbers are BS. 1/4 mile times are the true judge... My 493 in the Charger also had a surprisingly low number on the dyno. Its a 440 with the 4.15 stroke crank. 10.8 pistons, Edelbrock heads and the performer RPM intake. Barry Grant 850 and the MP '509 juice cam. It peaked at 361 HP at 5300 and 510 lbs of TQ at 3100. I expected more too, but this car runs like a raped ape!

Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question [Re: FuryBoy] #769987 08/10/10 04:14 AM 08/10/10 04:14 AM
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 712 California BigDaddy440 super stock
BigDaddy440 super stock Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 712 California	Quote: imho... Dyno numbers are BS. 1/4 mile times are the true judge... People who claim that dynos are BS are either uninformed or sour about their own dyno results. Several years ago I built a 440 with edelbrock heads, a solid flat tappet cam, nice intake, big carb, nice exhaust etc. It only made 360rwhp, which is about 450 engine horse power. The car still ran great, 11.90s at 114mph in a b body. On the same day, my friend brings his 440 powered b body which he had just finished building. Although he was a very experience Mopar racer, I thought I had him beat on the dyno with my new Edlelbrock heads. Our bottom-ends were nearly identical, but he had a solid-roller cam, home ported 906s and a six pack intake set up. He laid down 426rwhp, which is about 520 engine hp. I couldn't believe how much power he made. And sure enough, when he took it to the track, he had a full 5mph more trap speed than me too. The point here is, its the total combination that has too work well together to make the impressive numbers. Like dynos or not, the more dyno power you make, the faster your car will / should go. Btw, I've been around dynos quite a bit, and I've never seen results that are "fishy" or questionable. They always back up a car's track performance. Most guys go away upset from the dyno because they're there to get a ego boost, and end up getting a reality check. I've been on both sides of the coin. 1969 A12 Roadrunner 1970 Plymouth Cuda 1968 Dodge Dart

Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question [Re: BigDaddy440] #769988 08/10/10 04:43 AM 08/10/10 04:43 AM
Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,166 CT GTX MATT master
GTX MATT master Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,166 CT	Ditch the intake and carb, youve got an essentially stock intake and a very hard to tune carb. Also who knows what cam is in it? Without knowing you're probably just playing guessing games. In my experience when someone doesnt know whats been done to an engine they either know and dont want to say or whoever they got it from told them that because they knew and didn't want to say. It was probably rebuilt with a cheap rebuild kit which usually has low compression pistons. Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street

Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question [Re: NOrrTH] #769989 08/10/10 09:31 AM 08/10/10 09:31 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md	That carb is junk, toss it and get a Double pumper. Check you tune. You should have at least 36* total timing at around 22-2400rpm. As mentioned see what the compression is. If your "rough idle cam" is a MP 509 or 484 and you have low compression that can be problem. Before you do anything take it to the track and get some baseline numbers. who knows maybe the guys dyno is off. [IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/pui5j.jpg[/IMG] Coming soon!!!!

Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question [Re: Mr.Yuck] #769990 08/10/10 09:44 AM 08/10/10 09:44 AM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 797 arizona, usa L lokalik super stock
lokalik super stock L Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 797 arizona, usa	i agree carb is junk. don't agree on the 1/4 mile thinking. there are to many variables. traction, reaction time etc... i'm not a 1/4 mile king but the dyno takes the human factor out of it. we all know it takes a bit of skill to launch these cars without alot of wheel spin. the 1/4 mile kings all dyno their motors for chassis and clutch set up. we're street guys with probably pretty much stock suspension.

Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question [Re: lokalik] #769991 08/10/10 10:14 AM 08/10/10 10:14 AM
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,060 Pendleton NY T terzmo top fuel
terzmo top fuel T Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,060 Pendleton NY	reaction time is for heads up racing...the clock doesn't start till the car moves,including red lights. You get timed when you start. 440 6 pack cars, when new ran low 14's...new stock 426 hemis couldn't get into the 12's.

Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question [Re: terzmo] #769992 08/10/10 12:05 PM 08/10/10 12:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 3,820 Arlington, Texas B bobby66 master
bobby66 master B Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 3,820 Arlington, Texas	Quote: reaction time is for heads up racing...the clock doesn't start till the car moves,including red lights. You get timed when you start. 440 6 pack cars, when new ran low 14's...new stock 426 hemis couldn't get into the 12's. I don't think most Hemis made it in the 13s, stock.

Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question [Re: 451Mopar] #769993 08/10/10 12:57 PM 08/10/10 12:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,394 Pikes Peak Country T TC@HP2 master
TC@HP2 master T Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,394 Pikes Peak Country	Quote: need more info... Were those numbers the uncorrected HP and torque, or were they SAE corrected numbers? If they were uncorrected numbers what Temperature, Humidity, and Altitude when tested? What were the RPM at peak HP and peak Torque? Very important questions here for consideration of your combo before you just start changing things out. Where I am at, physical altitude is 5500 ft. Density altitude can be 10,000 or more on any given day. I have seen many "500" horse big blocks strap on the chassis dyno and crank out a whopping 180-200 RWHP. There is nothing inherently wrong with any of their combos, but high altitude combined with warm, thin air will kill power in no time. The same combo at sea level with dry air is a whole 'nuther story.

Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question [Re: TC@HP2] #769994 08/10/10 01:13 PM 08/10/10 01:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 456 Santa Barbara, CA HitIt mopar
HitIt mopar Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 456 Santa Barbara, CA	Did this dyno operator do any tuning to the timing or carb to squeeze a few more HP out of it, or did he just do a run and that was that? A 440 engine that's just a little off on those could easily lose 50hp, and that's aside from tune up stuff like plugs, wires, fuel filter, points, coil etc if any of that stuff needs replaced. Something to consider. very clever dinner. appetizing food fit neatly into interesting round pie.

Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question [Re: HitIt] #769995 08/10/10 03:08 PM 08/10/10 03:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,436 Oklahoma City OK Cudajon pro stock
Cudajon pro stock Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,436 Oklahoma City OK	How fresh of a build is it? Someone suggested running the compression numbers and a leakdown test. Good idea. On a street engine it takes a while fro the rings to seat. Second don't start changing a bunch of stuff the carb and intake are OK. Beg, borrow or steal a C02 meter and run the test yourself, I'm douptful the F/A mixture was dead on. They use an exhaust sniffer they poke up the exhaust pipe and they're not accurate. Do the basic tune up stuff before you fall for change this and change that. You're not that far off from a typical street 440. By the way a 68 Hemi RR would run high 13's and a Cuda mid 13's in stock form. If you wanted the fastest you bought a Cuda 440 6pack in stock form, it was thge fastest. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4J3K94cRC1c

Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question [Re: Cudajon] #769996 08/10/10 03:22 PM 08/10/10 03:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,931 P Paul_Fancsali master
Paul_Fancsali master P Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,931	BLAH BLAH BLAH stop racing numbers and run it at the track the times will tell you real power. Frankly it sounds as though the engine is running about what it should be ON chassis dyno, with power accessories and drive train loss. When I went from a 904 trans to 727 I lost a average of.15. Keep this in mind. I'm sick of reading about 700 hp cars in mags that end up going 14-15s. Go to Mopar national for a laugh. They don't hook drivers sleep on the line but hey thats what cars are all about fun. The important point is are You happy with the car ? Sorry but listening to the JA at pinks saying youi are not there for fun, but to win !!!!!!!!!!!I guess thats what I get for having fun!

Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question [Re: Paul_Fancsali] #769997 08/10/10 04:57 PM 08/10/10 04:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 177 J JCFcuda member
JCFcuda member J Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 177	Dynos should be used as a tool take those numbers with a grain of salt. Use the same one if your testing. Ever dyno is different, and will give different numbers. If you can take that car to a track ( find out what it weights) get the mph. And you can get a pretty good idea of the power. There is nothing wrong with that 750 Carter/ brocks are a good street carb. If your drag racing it and you want the most HP than a holly will be a better choice. Jim

Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question [Re: FuryBoy] #769998 08/10/10 05:18 PM 08/10/10 05:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest M MoparforLife Too Many Posts
MoparforLife Too Many Posts M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest	Quote: imho... Dyno numbers are BS. 1/4 mile times are the true judge... Fully agree. If you don't like a number go to another dyno till you find one that tells you what you want to hear. All a dyno is is a tool to help peak a combo for the day and conditions at the time of the pull.

Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question [Re: JCFcuda] #769999 08/10/10 05:23 PM 08/10/10 05:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,766 Central Valley, CA. Quicksilver440 I Live Here
Quicksilver440 I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,766 Central Valley, CA.	Those dyno results are right-on for your combo....Those are Rear wheel numbers, so 280 is not bad. My old hyd cam 440 combo made 420 hp at the wheels and ran 11.60's...and that was with headers, single plane intake, 800 DP holley and aluminum RPM heads and 10.2:1 compression. Combo is everything....find out what cam you have and compression ratio.

Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question [Re: MoparforLife] #770000 08/10/10 05:31 PM 08/10/10 05:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 230 FL S shupe enthusiast
shupe enthusiast S Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 230 FL	Quote: Quote: imho... Dyno numbers are BS. 1/4 mile times are the true judge... Fully agree. If you don't like a number go to another dyno till you find one that tells you what you want to hear. All a dyno is is a tool to help peak a combo for the day and conditions at the time of the pull. Yet another who agrees. Before I start changing carbs or doing leakdowns I'd at least drive the car and get a 1/4 mile mph. If you dyno'd the car because you drove it and it's a pig, that's another matter.

Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question [Re: barracudabob] #770001 08/10/10 06:03 PM 08/10/10 06:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,069 Irving, TX feets Senior Management
feets Senior Management Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,069 Irving, TX	Quote: Quote: imho... Dyno numbers are BS. 1/4 mile times are the true judge... I agree. Take it and get some timeslips, then start looking for more power. You guys are full of crap. What should a 3800 lb car with 459 rwhp and 490 rwtq run? That puts it close to 600 hp at the crank. How about a 12.49? Add a converter and it'd be a solid 11 car. The dyno won't see the converter. We recently had a dyno day with our club. A couple mild 440s made similar power to the original post. In fact, a couple small blocks were in the same park with power but were lacking the torque. The dyno can tell you a lot about your engine. In fact, Stumpy found that he needed to try a different shift point with his truck. A dyno is a tool. It is not a competition. When used properly, it will help improve your drag strip experience. When there is no drag strip close or if you're not a drag racer, dynos can come in handy for tuning your car. We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon

Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question [Re: feets] #770002 08/10/10 06:14 PM 08/10/10 06:14 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 4,481 Mesa, AZ P Pat_Whalen super gas
Pat_Whalen super gas P Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 4,481 Mesa, AZ	Quote: Quote: Quote: imho... Dyno numbers are BS. 1/4 mile times are the true judge... I agree. Take it and get some timeslips, then start looking for more power. You guys are full of crap. What should a 3800 lb car with 459 rwhp and 490 rwtq run? That puts it close to 600 hp at the crank. How about a 12.49? Add a converter and it'd be a solid 11 car. The dyno won't see the converter. We recently had a dyno day with our club. A couple mild 440s made similar power to the original post. In fact, a couple small blocks were in the same park with power but were lacking the torque. The dyno can tell you a lot about your engine. In fact, Stumpy found that he needed to try a different shift point with his truck. A dyno is a tool. It is not a competition. When used properly, it will help improve your drag strip experience. When there is no drag strip close or if you're not a drag racer, dynos can come in handy for tuning your car. Would it be fair to say that without needing a number to make you feel good about your engine and not being a drag racer, a wideband o2 sensor and a competent operator can be just as effect (and cheaper) than a tuning session on a dyno?

Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question [Re: NOrrTH] #770003 08/10/10 06:34 PM 08/10/10 06:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,068 Oregon A AndyF I Win
AndyF I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,068 Oregon	Nothing wrong with those numbers for a basically stock 440. In fact, that is just about exactly the kind of numbers to be expected. My old 470 motor would make about 475 RWHP and it was a tad too radical for a daily driver. I agree with your dyno operator, if you start making too much power it gets to be a hassle. Parts do start breaking and the maintenance does go way up. One option is to go with a stroker motor but to keep the cam, intake and carb on the conservative side. That combination gives you lots of torque at a lower rpm which gives you good pulling power. By not having to turn the engine really high you avoid a lot of maintenance and part breakage. Of course, it costs a bunch of money to add displacement. It all boils down to choices and money.

Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question [Re: AndyF] #770004 08/10/10 07:46 PM 08/10/10 07:46 PM
Joined: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,185 Nanaimo, BC N NOrrTH OP super stock
NOrrTH OP super stock N Joined: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,185 Nanaimo, BC	Again, thanks for all the excellent advice and comments. Some people say that the numbers are about where there should be given the limited info I have and that gives me the comfort I was looking for. Soooo.... it turns out I had a dead plug. Wouldn't that of shown up on the dyno's computer? Not sure how much a difference that would've made, but ya, there's some lost hp To answer some of the questions: The dyno numbers are uncorrected 83 deg F 33% humidity elevation 103 ft max hp at 4500 rpm max torque 3750 No the dyno guy didn't tune it, just fluids Air fuel line is almost flat after 3k rpm at 13.5 My cousin said "throw on some 906 heads, put 3.91's in it and that will wake that 440 up." The car goes pretty good, I'm not complaining but..another 75 or so hp would be nice '71 GTX N96 auto 3:55 '74 Challenger 440+6 4spd 4:10 '71 Duster 340 auto 4:10

Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question [Re: shupe] #770005 08/10/10 08:13 PM 08/10/10 08:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,721 Eugene, OR F FuryBoy top fuel
FuryBoy top fuel F Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,721 Eugene, OR	Quote: Quote: Quote: imho... Dyno numbers are BS. 1/4 mile times are the true judge... Fully agree. If you don't like a number go to another dyno till you find one that tells you what you want to hear. All a dyno is is a tool to help peak a combo for the day and conditions at the time of the pull. Yet another who agrees. Before I start changing carbs or doing leakdowns I'd at least drive the car and get a 1/4 mile mph. If you dyno'd the car because you drove it and it's a pig, that's another matter. This was my intention with my original statement. Yes, a dyno can be a valuable tool for tuning and finding the best way to use your engines powerband. But to try and compare different dyno numbers, in different parts of the country is a little ridiculous. And E/T is not what tells the story on horsepower, MPH is. You know that Feets... And I have never been sour at a dyno when we've used one. My car itself has never been dynoed, but my dad laid down 375 RWHP in Reno about 5 years ago with a solid cammed, home ported 906 440. Absolutely smoked some blown small block chevys there that were only putting down 275 hp at the rear wheels. Not sure what happened to those cars...

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