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Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: 71rm23] #76882
06/23/08 12:43 PM
06/23/08 12:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,252
Zzyzx Road
beepbeep Offline
moparts member
beepbeep  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,252
Zzyzx Road
Quote:

Where did you get that picture from?


It is a section of factory assembly drawings, that was in a magazine. The one shown above is from a '69 B body, however the covers are assembled the same way on the E body drawings I have that I have been asked not to post by Chrysler. The part numbers are different, so have been cropped out.


Amazing how an unchallenged lie can become the absolute truth.
Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: beepbeep] #76883
06/23/08 05:01 PM
06/23/08 05:01 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165
Florida
C
cataclysm80 Offline
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master
C

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165
Florida
Wow, Cool Thread!

Tav

Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: cataclysm80] #76884
06/23/08 10:04 PM
06/23/08 10:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,897
St. Louis, MO
Blues_Cuda Offline OP
master
Blues_Cuda  Offline OP
master

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,897
St. Louis, MO
Check out the side of the block. I didn't even notice at first, but Dave pointed it out to me.

(On my computer, it is easier to see what I am referring to if you were to step back a couple feet.)

4507872-Image1.jpg (508 downloads)
Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: Blues_Cuda] #76885
06/23/08 10:07 PM
06/23/08 10:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,897
St. Louis, MO
Blues_Cuda Offline OP
master
Blues_Cuda  Offline OP
master

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,897
St. Louis, MO
Another picture......

4507882-Dsc05268-1.jpg (463 downloads)
Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: ECS] #76886
06/23/08 10:09 PM
06/23/08 10:09 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 243
St. Louis, MO
DodgeMaterial Offline
enthusiast
DodgeMaterial  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 243
St. Louis, MO
Quote:

Hey Dave,
You have seen the car every step of the way. Does it look like a new factory correct car from 1970 or are we just embellishing?




Dave W- No embellishments at all - you and Steve are taking the most extreme measures to ensure that this Challenger is like a factory assembled brand new 1970 Challenger. If anything you have been too humble. I know some folks have to be negative and you rightfully stand up to them. No one but a few of us that know you and watch your efforts, research and determination for perfection understand - that is until everyone sees the results! Thanks for taking us back to 1970! Dave


DodgeMaterial - Dave JS29U0B - FK5 - 440-4 Auto WS23V0A - EB5 - 440-6 Auto
Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: Blues_Cuda] #76887
06/23/08 10:42 PM
06/23/08 10:42 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
E
ECS Offline
David Walden
ECS  Offline
David Walden
E

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
Quote:

Check out the side of the block. I didn't even notice at first, but Dave pointed it out to me.

(On my computer, it is easier to see what I am referring to if you were to step back a couple feet.)




It is as easy to see as A C B!

Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: KISSAlien] #76888
06/23/08 11:11 PM
06/23/08 11:11 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
E
ECS Offline
David Walden
ECS  Offline
David Walden
E

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
Quote:

Does your car have a 203 SPD?

If so, it is already in my database. If not then it would be the third EW1/V6B/H5B5 car I know about. The V-code car has a white vinyl top though.




You should not have cropped out the part that shows where the crooked tire pressure decal was! I recall that one of my good "friends" was upset that I had a quick response to someone else's question regarding the decal placements. This picture, taken over two years ago, was to make sure that the decal will be put back just as crooked and in the EXACT same place. It really wasn't that hard recalling a small aspect of the project that was so thoroughly thought thru at the time.

Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: ECS] #76889
06/24/08 12:13 AM
06/24/08 12:13 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 636
California
S
sixpaktoogo Offline
mopar
sixpaktoogo  Offline
mopar
S

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 636
California
Dave,

Is there any chance that you can write a book showing all of your procedures in restoring your Challenger? I think you have done a remarkable job!!! By the way, I met you at the Nats about 5 years (?) ago. You bought a rimblow wheel from me that I think you were going to restore and put in your Cuda. I wish you all the best in the OEM judging. I think this car will (and should)score the highest of any previously judged!

Dan

Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: Blues_Cuda] #76890
06/24/08 04:33 AM
06/24/08 04:33 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,897
St. Louis, MO
Blues_Cuda Offline OP
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Blues_Cuda  Offline OP
master

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,897
St. Louis, MO
Another picture..........

4508188-Dsc05325-1.jpg (402 downloads)
Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: Blues_Cuda] #76891
06/24/08 06:11 AM
06/24/08 06:11 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,855
Georgetown Ontario Canada
anlauto Offline
I Live Here
anlauto  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,855
Georgetown Ontario Canada
What's the difference between this car and any other car that's been restored for OE judging?

Will this car score a perfect score?

Will this car set the standard for all cars to follow?

The drive and detremenation that Dave and Steve put forth on this restoration is nothing short of incredible, however I don't think it's any different than any of the other cars restored for this purpose? Is it?


CHECK OUT MY NEW WEB SITE !
Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: Blues_Cuda] #76892
06/24/08 08:16 AM
06/24/08 08:16 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,304
WI
RestoRick Offline
top fuel
RestoRick  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,304
WI
Quote:

Check out the side of the block. I didn't even notice at first, but Dave pointed it out to me.

(On my computer, it is easier to see what I am referring to if you were to step back a couple feet.)




Here's one without paint:

4508360-OEGold1999024.jpg (396 downloads)
Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: RestoRick] #76893
06/24/08 08:27 AM
06/24/08 08:27 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,417
White Plains, NY
VCODE Offline
top fuel
VCODE  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,417
White Plains, NY
Quote:

Quote:

Check out the side of the block. I didn't even notice at first, but Dave pointed it out to me.

(On my computer, it is easier to see what I am referring to if you were to step back a couple feet.)




Here's one without paint:




BTW Great post

Any meaning? Cylinder or piston size?
IIRC in the 70's working on 440 engines pistons had letters or numbers on them.That's a long time ago
Bob

Last edited by VCODE; 06/24/08 08:32 AM.

Mom & Dad let me buy a brand new 70 Challenger R/T 440 Six-Pack Super Trac Pack when I was 17

(Robert what is a 440 Six-Pack)
Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: anlauto] #76894
06/24/08 09:06 AM
06/24/08 09:06 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
E
ECS Offline
David Walden
ECS  Offline
David Walden
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Posts: 1,711
USA
Quote:

What's the difference between this car and any other car that's been restored for OE judging?

I don't think it's any different than any of the other cars restored for this purpose? Is it?




The black car we did three years ago scored 2205.5 out of 2250 which is the highest point total of any OE car to date. This car is about 100 times better in appearance and originality than that one is. On a personal note, this has been the most difficult projects I have ever been involved with in my life. I have went through 6 years of college on an MBA program and started a business where we had to go through the legalities of being licensed by Ford, Chrysler and General Motors. During the past 4 years we started a new branch of the company where we received Federal DOT/DMV approval to be the global supplier for replacement certification decals, for new vehicles within the collision insurance industry. (ECS VIN.com) Besides all of that it took approximately 10 to 12 hours a day of networking to find parts, working on the car with Steve and detailing everything to exhibit a factory correct vehicle appearance. Working with the CEOs of companies like Legendary Interiors (for one example) to reconstruct the NOS interior fabrics, just the way they were done by the original supplier, was common practice during this endeavor. I can accurately say that this interior is different than ANY other one that does not still have it’s original one installed. There are subtle factory differences that never make it into the regular reproduction designs. The paint job alone took a little over six months. A special spray booth with an air circulating filtering system had to be constructed in order to ensure a factory “orange peel” finish without getting any dirt in the surface. An original paint finish was not and should not be wet sanded. With a running total (so far) of about $230K these are just a SMALL number of tasks, within a long list of objectives that we had to deal with. I could go on and on but I have already written enough.

Other than that, it was just your normal - simple run of the mill OE type restoration Alan.

Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: ECS] #76895
06/24/08 09:56 AM
06/24/08 09:56 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,957
West Coast, CA
T
Troy Offline
master
Troy  Offline
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Posts: 3,957
West Coast, CA
Hi Dave....your mailbox is full. (Gee, go figure!! )


....there is nothing like driving my 1968 Hemi Dart around town and having people looking at you like you're nuts!!
Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: anlauto] #76896
06/24/08 10:11 AM
06/24/08 10:11 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,267
midwest
S
sg333e Offline
super street
sg333e  Offline
super street
S

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,267
midwest
Quote:

What's the difference between this car and any other car that's been restored for OE judging?

Will this car score a perfect score?

Will this car set the standard for all cars to follow?

The drive and detremenation that Dave and Steve put forth on this restoration is nothing short of incredible, however I don't think it's any different than any of the other cars restored for this purpose? Is it?




If you can't see the differences.......then you probably can't compete at that level. Just from what I have seen it is evident this car will blow away the black one. While I would never try to do my car to this level, I am learning from this one and think it is amazing.


Hobbies and associated message boards: 1970 Cuda 440+6 FE5 H6X9 4 SP> Moparts.com 1987 Grand National (422rwhp/566tq)> TurboBuick.com 2008 BMW 335 TT 6MT> E90Post.com 2008 Gary Fisher HiFi Plus 29er > MTBR.com 2008 German Shorthair Pointer > Shorthairs.net
Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: beepbeep] #76897
06/24/08 11:48 AM
06/24/08 11:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,592
None
71rm23 Offline
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71rm23  Offline
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Posts: 2,592
None
Quote:

Quote:

Dave(ECS)- I could not help but notice the gasket like splash sheild mounted from the inside of the inner fender. Was this the way they were installed on the car? I thought they were installed from the outer side to allow easy removal for caster/camber adjustments. Just curious and always willing to learn.
Ron




The caster shields are the metal shields further in front.




No intention on high jacking this site but...Does anyone know where you can get the covers? I'm NOT talking about the metal ones. I need the same material for the clips to go into(flexible). They appear to be a mud flap material. Anyway, I'd like to replace the ones I have.

4508799-imag_84.jpg (282 downloads)
Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: ECS] #76898
06/24/08 12:14 PM
06/24/08 12:14 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,123
Warrenton, VA
RoadRunnerJD Offline
master
RoadRunnerJD  Offline
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Posts: 5,123
Warrenton, VA
Quote:

Quote:

Does your car have a 203 SPD?

If so, it is already in my database. If not then it would be the third EW1/V6B/H5B5 car I know about. The V-code car has a white vinyl top though.




You should not have cropped out the part that shows where the crooked tire pressure decal was! I recall that one of my good "friends" was upset that I had a quick response to someone else's question regarding the decal placements. This picture, taken over two years ago, was to make sure that the decal will be put back just as crooked and in the EXACT same place. It really wasn't that hard recalling a small aspect of the project that was so thoroughly thought thru at the time.




I understand recreating the originality but what would be wrong with some minor improvements like placing the decal(s) more neatly or as the factory intended even if the line worker did not execute the application properly?

Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: RoadRunnerJD] #76899
06/24/08 01:04 PM
06/24/08 01:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 632
Mass
M
Mike Mancini Offline
mopar
Mike Mancini  Offline
mopar
M

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 632
Mass
You're not understanding Dave's intentions. He is restoring the car to OEM 1970 specifications. All details are being reproduced as documented during the disassembly of his specific example.

Mike Mancini


Michael L. Mancini
American Muscle Car Restorations, Inc.
65 Foliage Drive
N. Kingstown, RI

Premium Quality Restoration Services for Hi-Performance & Classic Automobiles. OE Specialists.

Instrument Specialties, Inc

www.instrument-specialties.com
www.manciniresto.com
www.performancecargraphics.com
Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: Blues_Cuda] #76900
06/24/08 02:00 PM
06/24/08 02:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,855
Georgetown Ontario Canada
anlauto Offline
I Live Here
anlauto  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,855
Georgetown Ontario Canada
Doing the math here....WoW..Are the judges ready for 220550 points out of a possible 2250?

All kidding aside and certainly without disrespect the pictures shown here are not any different then others posted by people doing the same type of OE resto...at least on my computer screen...
What I want to see is the MIND BLOWING stuff, stuff other restorers wouldn't even dream of doing.....

Lets see the "grey dip line" throughout the complete interior...imcompassing the entire inner doors and 1/4 window area....Lets see the bare steel on the underside of the rear speaker shelf....The bare steel on the inside of the roof panel or behind the dash.....Come on.....DETAILS baby....LETS SEE THE GOOD STUFF

I love this detail stuff and can never get enough...Keep up the Great work Dave/Steve


CHECK OUT MY NEW WEB SITE !
Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: RoadRunnerJD] #76901
06/24/08 02:11 PM
06/24/08 02:11 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
E
ECS Offline
David Walden
ECS  Offline
David Walden
E

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Does your car have a 203 SPD?

If so, it is already in my database. If not then it would be the third EW1/V6B/H5B5 car I know about. The V-code car has a white vinyl top though.




You should not have cropped out the part that shows where the crooked tire pressure decal was! I recall that one of my good "friends" was upset that I had a quick response to someone else's question regarding the decal placements. This picture, taken over two years ago, was to make sure that the decal will be put back just as crooked and in the EXACT same place. It really wasn't that hard recalling a small aspect of the project that was so thoroughly thought thru at the time.




I understand recreating the originality but what would be wrong with some minor improvements like placing the decal(s) more neatly or as the factory intended even if the line worker did not execute the application properly?





We thought the beating... I mean challenge, would be worth it in the end. Seriously, it really was a ton of extra effort to recreate the original status of the car. I mentioned in an earlier post about trying to sign your name twice the same exact way. It is almost an impossibility to accomplish that. We did our best however to follow the original patina of this car. Is it an exact to the most nth degree carbon copy duplicate? No probably not! Just remember that everyone here agrees that even the guys making these cars could not follow their own "signatures" every single time. Trying to do what a stranger/employee did 38 years ago is even more difficult. As I stated earlier, the paint job took over Six months to accomplish! At least 4-5 weeks of that time was planning and discussing what angles and amounts of coverage each area would receive. (We literally put back the exact drip patterns that we found on the underneath of the car! Trying to walk in the footprints of someone else's work can be very difficult.) Also keep in mind that once the actual spraying started, Steve would have just ONE shot at hitting the target. The firewall seam sealer was also a project in and of itself. It took about 1 WEEK, doing that procedure over and over until we got it to flow out just like the original pattern. As Steve worked with it we could see how it was reacting when applied to the surface. After about 14 tubes of the two part expanding sealer and MANY attempts....BINGO! It matched pretty closely. We are about 95% correct in reproducing this particular cars original features. If anyone saw it without the original comparisons, you would think that it was just a new car from that period of time. You have to hold the "before" pictures against the "after" or finished features to nitpick the differences. Here is the comparison example of the firewall seam sealer that was referenced above:

4509068-ChallFirewall.jpg (419 downloads)
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