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Shelf life on racing fuel #768172
08/07/10 11:29 PM
08/07/10 11:29 PM
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Pennsylvania, USA
Big_Fish Offline OP
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Big_Fish  Offline OP
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I've had 5 gallons of C16 for over a year and didn't put any fuel stabilizer in it or anything. Any chance I can cut this with new fuel and still use it? Just wondering if it's any good or should I just toss it (lawn mower use etc). Thanks

Re: Shelf life on racing fuel [Re: Big_Fish] #768173
08/08/10 12:02 AM
08/08/10 12:02 AM
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HPMike Offline
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Quote:

I've had 5 gallons of C16 for over a year and didn't put any fuel stabilizer in it or anything. Any chance I can cut this with new fuel and still use it? Just wondering if it's any good or should I just toss it (lawn mower use etc). Thanks




I wouldn't use it. Some other people will tell you it's fine, but I have seen first hand how poorly old race fuel performs on the dyno. For the relatively small cost of 5 gallons, it's not worth hurting your motor over it.

MB

Re: Shelf life on racing fuel [Re: Big_Fish] #768174
08/08/10 12:03 AM
08/08/10 12:03 AM
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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What type container was it store in, plastic, metal fuel barrel or can?


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Shelf life on racing fuel [Re: Big_Fish] #768175
08/08/10 12:17 AM
08/08/10 12:17 AM
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jamesc Offline
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run it

Re: Shelf life on racing fuel [Re: jamesc] #768176
08/08/10 04:30 AM
08/08/10 04:30 AM
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Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:

run it






Race gas already has stabilzers in it, run it. I've stored cars and small engines with it for 20+ years now.

Re: Shelf life on racing fuel [Re: Challenger 1] #768177
08/08/10 05:10 AM
08/08/10 05:10 AM
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HPMike Offline
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A snippet of what VP has to say about it.

"Keeping the fuel fresh also requires using it soon after you acquire it. You cannot expect the fuel you purchased at the beginning of the year to have the same efficiency at the end of the year. The lighter elements of the composition will be gone by the time you get around to using it. The best teams calculate fuel usage and buy accordingly. Fuel should also be kept in sealed containers for obvious reasons and stored in areas not susceptible to moisture. Like the UV rays, temperature can be harmful to a fuel's efficiency, so a cool storage area is helpful."

One quick story. A while back, I had a customers race engine on the dyno and ran short of fuel. Used a can of Maximal that was about 9 months old. It had been opened, but was still in the original can. Started the pull and immediately noticed the audible detonation and shut it down. Purged the cell and went and got some fresh fuel. Everything back to normal.

Since that time, I have been pretty fussy about fresh fuel. The car will run, but I wouldn't chance it. At the very least, it might cost you some power and the OP is only talking about a measly 5 gallons.

Your results may vary.

Re: Shelf life on racing fuel [Re: HPMike] #768178
08/08/10 06:17 AM
08/08/10 06:17 AM
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jamesc Offline
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what would you expect from a company that sells fuel? fyi the "lighter" elements don't necessarily carry a high octane rating, working in a refinery for 15 years you do learn a couple things. imho if you had a engine detonating on Maximal (116 Octane) that was only nine months old and new fuel corrected that there were other considerations going on. iirc the TEL they put in race fuels has a great impact on octane doesn't have a high vapor pressure. not that fuel doesn't degrade over time but i've used race fuel that's two years old with no noticeable issues and he's talking about cutting it as well. i wouldn't do it on a prostocker but imho for most applications it's a non issue.

Re: Shelf life on racing fuel [Re: jamesc] #768179
08/08/10 08:22 AM
08/08/10 08:22 AM
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I had some trak tek 114 that wa over a year old and it was in a plastic 55 gal. drum. My car ran like crap. I drained what was in the cell and put in 5 gal. of fresh sunoco 110..The car sounded a lot better...Can't wait to go back to the track and see if it will pick up some!!


Need your rear end checked out? Contact Grizzly!!
Re: Shelf life on racing fuel [Re: tboomer] #768180
08/08/10 08:25 AM
08/08/10 08:25 AM
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U.S.
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moparniac Offline
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wouldnt this matter from what type pf container used and geograpic location/ yearly climate of where you live.


Mopar Performance
Re: Shelf life on racing fuel [Re: moparniac] #768181
08/08/10 08:29 AM
08/08/10 08:29 AM
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I am sure that has a lot to do with fuel going bad...Hot and cold cycles,etc...I won't buy a fresh drum this year...Not enough of a season left..


Need your rear end checked out? Contact Grizzly!!
Re: Shelf life on racing fuel [Re: jamesc] #768182
08/08/10 08:55 AM
08/08/10 08:55 AM
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NJ-USA
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HPMike Offline
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Quote:

what would you expect from a company that sells fuel? fyi the "lighter" elements don't necessarily carry a high octane rating, working in a refinery for 15 years you do learn a couple things. imho if you had a engine detonating on Maximal (116 Octane) that was only nine months old and new fuel corrected that there were other considerations going on. iirc the TEL they put in race fuels has a great impact on octane doesn't have a high vapor pressure. not that fuel doesn't degrade over time but i've used race fuel that's two years old with no noticeable issues and he's talking about cutting it as well. i wouldn't do it on a prostocker but imho for most applications it's a non issue.




They don't put a "use before" date on the can and they don't say to throw it out -they are just making a recommendation. They could also say something like "buy as much as you can-it will never go bad". That might be good for sales, no? I never worked in a refinery and I am no chemist and respect your opinion, just relaying personal info, that's all. If you really want to see fuel degrade,though, try using old Q16 . I did miss the part that the OP mentioned that he would be cutting it. That would mitigate the circumstances.

MB

Re: Shelf life on racing fuel [Re: moparniac] #768183
08/08/10 09:23 AM
08/08/10 09:23 AM
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jamesc Offline
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Quote:

wouldnt this matter from what type pf container used and geograpic location/ yearly climate of where you live.





yes, many race fuels are photosensitive (UV rays from sunlight degrade them) so keeping them in a dark, cool, dry area is best. i used to be able to get a drum (steel) directly from the refinery being i was an employee but they won't do it anymore. the last drum i brought was in a poly drum which i don't particularly care for. it's probably no issue with methanol but for gasoline i very much prefer a steel drum. methanol is hygroscopic which means it will absorb moisture right out of the air so it's very important to keep alky sealed up tight.

Re: Shelf life on racing fuel [Re: HPMike] #768184
08/08/10 09:26 AM
08/08/10 09:26 AM
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It took me over a year to burn up the 55G drum of sunoco 110 and the last 5G the car ran the same number as it did with the first 5G


70 duster full chassis super pro 416 CNC Indybrock heads 727 w/brake

best so far 1.212 60 6.219 in 1/8 at 110.88 9.768 at 137.81 1/4
Re: Shelf life on racing fuel [Re: jamesc] #768185
08/08/10 10:59 AM
08/08/10 10:59 AM
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Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:

Quote:

wouldnt this matter from what type pf container used and geograpic location/ yearly climate of where you live.





yes, many race fuels are photosensitive (UV rays from sunlight degrade them) so keeping them in a dark, cool, dry area is best. i used to be able to get a drum (steel) directly from the refinery being i was an employee but they won't do it anymore. the last drum i brought was in a poly drum which i don't particularly care for. it's probably no issue with methanol but for gasoline i very much prefer a steel drum. methanol is hygroscopic which means it will absorb moisture right out of the air so it's very important to keep alky sealed up tight.




Except storing fuel in plastic drums. Too much vapor escapes through plastic,imo.

Wow, I din't think plastic 55 gal drums were legal for fuel storage. Do the plastic drums have DOT and a number molded into them?

All the plastic drums I've looked at over the years were not DOT legal for flamable liquids.

IMO plastic is the worst large storage container for race gas, big myth about rust. Keeping it in a cool dry place is the key, to keeping moisture out, hence rust. It's not OK sitting out on the side of the house seeing the temp changes day after day. I've seen it, as I've been selling race fuels since the 80s.

Re: Shelf life on racing fuel [Re: jamesc] #768186
08/08/10 11:25 AM
08/08/10 11:25 AM
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Quote:

methanol is hygroscopic which means it will absorb moisture right out of the air so it's very important to keep alky sealed up tight.


E85 ( Ethanol ) has the same afinity for water. Suggest anyone that runs it buys a test kit to check it for water content - right out of the pump - and often during usage. Storage life will definitely be shorter for it.


Fastest 300
Re: Shelf life on racing fuel [Re: Challenger 1] #768187
08/08/10 11:36 AM
08/08/10 11:36 AM
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All fuels are not created equal, so the best way to figure anything out is do a simple test, pour the fuel into a clear glass jar and look at it into the light, compared to a fresh sample of the same fuel, as they say a pic is worth a thousand words, Check for color and clarity, if the fuel is cloudy don't use it in a race engine, my lawn tractor is addicted to old 100ll ave gas another good test is to store a QT of the fuel you choose to run in a sealed glass jar and store it for six Mo, then check the bottom of the jar for sediments and phase separation, just cause you paid good bux for it does not mean its the best fuel

Re: Shelf life on racing fuel [Re: Challenger 1] #768188
08/08/10 11:37 AM
08/08/10 11:37 AM
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Pennsylvania, USA
Big_Fish Offline OP
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Thanks for the feedback. I forgot I had a 5 gal plastic fuel jug in the garage. I thought it was empty until I had to move it to get something. It was in a dry environment but I think I'll just cut it and not completely chance it. 1:5 ratio and if anything negative is noticed I'll repost the info. Thanks again.

Re: Shelf life on racing fuel [Re: Big_Fish] #768189
08/08/10 12:08 PM
08/08/10 12:08 PM
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Upstate NY
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Last time I had my motor on a dyno I compared fresh c-16 with fuel that was over a year old. My results were no change between the two fuels.


Jim

Re: Shelf life on racing fuel [Re: Big_Fish] #768190
08/08/10 12:17 PM
08/08/10 12:17 PM
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Lehigh Acres, Florida
rickstershemi Offline
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Quote:

Thanks for the feedback. I forgot I had a 5 gal plastic fuel jug in the garage. I thought it was empty until I had to move it to get something. It was in a dry environment but I think I'll just cut it and not completely chance it. 1:5 ratio and if anything negative is noticed I'll repost the info. Thanks again.




If it's been stored in a plastic jug....I wouldn't use it period....not even mixed.

Rickster

Re: Shelf life on racing fuel [Re: rickstershemi] #768191
08/09/10 09:59 PM
08/09/10 09:59 PM
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Posts: 352
Pennsylvania, USA
Big_Fish Offline OP
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I used the fuel and had absolutely no problems or noticeable detonation issues I only used about 2 gallons and plan to cut the rest with all new fuel.

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