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who is the six pack king #759014
07/27/10 05:43 AM
07/27/10 05:43 AM
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Winesburg Ohio
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mattpar Offline OP
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I've got a few questions about the function of my 340 six pack. it is set up pretty good and runs nice but the end carbs are not opening. At what rpm can i expect them to start there opening. Also the car starts a bit hard when hot and had sat for a little while

Thanks

Re: who is the six pack king [Re: mattpar] #759015
07/27/10 06:56 AM
07/27/10 06:56 AM
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A gulag near you.
JohnRR Offline
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How are you determining that the end carbs are not opening ?

Re: who is the six pack king [Re: JohnRR] #759016
07/27/10 08:06 AM
07/27/10 08:06 AM
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arizona, usa
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lokalik Offline
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arizona, usa
how can it be a nice set up and run nice if the end carbs are not opening? have you manualy pull vac to see if the carbs are opening? you can do that and watch them operate. what springs are in the outboards? sorry can't tell you who is the king.

Re: who is the six pack king [Re: lokalik] #759017
07/27/10 09:20 AM
07/27/10 09:20 AM
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Not2farfromNashville, TN
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Rug_Trucker Offline
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Quote:

sorry can't tell you who is the king.




Stu?


"The only thing to do for triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

"NUNQUAM NON PARATUS!"
Re: who is the six pack king [Re: Rug_Trucker] #759018
07/27/10 09:30 AM
07/27/10 09:30 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 909
Mississauga, Canada
KARLN Offline
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Mississauga, Canada
I'm sure anyone with a six pack with Holley 2300's will tell you that starting after sitting a while is hard. The fuel drains out of the bowl and it takes some cranking to build up fuel.


B5 Challenger T/A
Re: who is the six pack king [Re: JohnRR] #759019
07/27/10 06:08 PM
07/27/10 06:08 PM
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Posts: 118
Winesburg Ohio
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mattpar Offline OP
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By running up the rpms in the garage with the air cleaner off?

Re: who is the six pack king [Re: mattpar] #759020
07/27/10 06:34 PM
07/27/10 06:34 PM
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Posts: 18,166
Mass
DAYCLONA Offline
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Here you go Matt, just click on the word "attachment" to inlarge

Mike

6108561-sixpack1.JPG (843 downloads)
Re: who is the six pack king [Re: mattpar] #759021
07/27/10 06:37 PM
07/27/10 06:37 PM
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Mass
DAYCLONA Offline
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....continued

6108565-sixpack2.JPG (347 downloads)
Re: who is the six pack king [Re: mattpar] #759022
07/27/10 08:49 PM
07/27/10 08:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Moved to N.E. Tennessee
GomangoCuda Offline
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Quote:

How are you determining that the end carbs are not opening ?




Quote:

By running up the rpms in the garage with the air cleaner off?




The end carbs will NOT open without a load on the engine.


In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
Re: who is the six pack king [Re: DAYCLONA] #759023
07/27/10 09:32 PM
07/27/10 09:32 PM
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Winesburg Ohio
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mattpar Offline OP
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thank you i did all of that. can you tell me what should the vacuume be at the port for the secondaries and i still would like to know the tipical rpms that they open

thanks

Re: who is the six pack king [Re: mattpar] #759024
07/27/10 10:27 PM
07/27/10 10:27 PM
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Badham Co.
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Y3 70 BEE Offline
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Badham Co.
Colt 45 works every time if I am tuning or drinking.

Re: who is the six pack king [Re: Y3 70 BEE] #759025
07/27/10 10:38 PM
07/27/10 10:38 PM
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Houston,Tx.
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Lee446 Offline
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You will have little or no vacumn at the port on the center carb at idle. The vacumn that operates the end carbs is generated by airflow through the venturi's of the center, under load. The end carbs have a kill bleed that leaks some of this vac to regulate how fast the ends open. Look into the pass side venturi of an end carb and you will see a tiny hole in the side of the venturi, very close to the booster level. If you want to check operation of the ends, get a Mity Mite hand vac pump, hook it to each individual end carb, cover the kill bleed hole with your finger, and pump it to see if it works.

Re: who is the six pack king [Re: Y3 70 BEE] #759026
07/27/10 10:39 PM
07/27/10 10:39 PM
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Posts: 8,194
Detroit, MI
CokeBottleKid Offline
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Detroit, MI
I AM THE PUMPKIN KING!!!!!!!!!



Oh wait you said six pack king

Re: who is the six pack king [Re: mattpar] #759027
07/27/10 10:44 PM
07/27/10 10:44 PM
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Posts: 18,166
Mass
DAYCLONA Offline
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Quote:

thank you i did all of that. can you tell me what should the vacuume be at the port for the secondaries and i still would like to know the tipical rpms that they open

thanks





Matt,..I can't give you a definitive answer, as engine, cam, timing, vacumm reading, secondary springs, and a host of other conditions that can be altered/tailored can achieve different results for different RPM ranges,....you basically need to set-up the opening rate, and RPM range that best suits your motor,...I outlined that in the posts above with the attatchment,....but first you need to confirm that your set up is mechanicaly working, float levels are proper and the air/fuel idle mix is proper, you need to know what the vacumm is on your engine, what springs are currently in the secondarys,...that no bindage in linkage, throttle bores, etc exsists,...the list is endless just mechanicaly, before you can start "tuneing" or "dialing in" the carbs to operate at their maximum potential

Mike

Re: who is the six pack king [Re: DAYCLONA] #759028
07/27/10 10:51 PM
07/27/10 10:51 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,632
Florida STAYcation
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...since I have a 6 pack intake .. that is ported and welded-OUT to max-wedge heads ......

I beez 'da King-o-6-Pack ! .... (and it is ferr-sail BTW)

Re: who is the six pack king [Re: DAYCLONA] #759029
07/27/10 11:00 PM
07/27/10 11:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
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quick77rt Offline
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No King here, just having fun with six packs. I think many are asking your needs and what you expect, my end carbs flip open like a pit bull out of the gate 3k area. Ive the lightest spring and then cut it a bit. Alot of work in them though..

What is your rpm area (stock intake)? my cam likes 7600 and with a modified intake its semi easy.

If all else fails put a plate kit on it, six packs seems to like spray and its fun.

Re: who is the six pack king [Re: mattpar] #759030
07/28/10 06:08 AM
07/28/10 06:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,326
A gulag near you.
JohnRR Offline
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Quote:

thank you i did all of that. can you tell me what should the vacuume be at the port for the secondaries and i still would like to know the tipical rpms that they open

thanks




There is no typical RPM they open at, and, as said, you will not get them to open with your head leaning in over the fender.

Re: who is the six pack king [Re: mattpar] #759031
07/28/10 06:59 AM
07/28/10 06:59 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1 Offline
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I am no expert that's for sure. I found my new setup lean when I installed it and tested a few different springs for the outter carbs. Put some stiffer springs in it to minmize any bogg when they open. I can wing the throttle and see mine open for a split second sitting there.

Like what was mentioned, bolting on the carbs needs to be done carefully to eliminate binding. It's easy to just bolt them on and have binding. Good luck with your car, plenty of people here who can help.

Re: who is the six pack king [Re: CokeBottleKid] #759032
07/28/10 11:39 AM
07/28/10 11:39 AM
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Winesburg Ohio
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mattpar Offline OP
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Winesburg Ohio
thank you all for helping out. if i am driving the car should i feel a major boost when they kick in or is it just a so so thing? i'm not one to get on it too hard im a bit of a puss, i only take it up to 6,000 not much more, or do i need to give it more?


And what is a pumpkin king?

Re: who is the six pack king [Re: mattpar] #759033
07/28/10 02:28 PM
07/28/10 02:28 PM
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Posts: 2,482
Answering the call of the wild
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ThermoQuad Offline
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Answering the call of the wild
Here is a guide to tune six packs. It's not everything but gets you close enough.

Quality cap rotor, wires and plugs that are not too hot or cold in heat range.
Distributor vacuum port on carb disconnected and plugged
Make sure that your ignition advance curve is such that you can run at 15 - 18 deg advance at idle. This is important.
Car in neutral-auto or 4 sp, emergency brake set
A good quality vacuum gage is required, a digital tach if you have that as well.
Connect vac gauge to manifold vacuum source.

Outboards idle adj screws out 1/8 turn ccw THIS IS IMPORTANT

64 jets in ctr carb

If you have new carbs(untouched) they will have 62 jets in the center carb

Black springs in the secondaries
You must know what power valve is in the ctr carb. Typically a 6.5

The slotted screw on top of the float adjuster, is just a lock screw, you can remove it for now, the 5/8" nut is the adjuster/needle seat nut, rotating it counter clockwise will raise fuel level in the bowl, clockwise will lower it
Make small 1/2 turns & let the car run a 3 or more minutes so the fuel levels off
check the fuel in the clear site window, at the bottom on the ctr carb and up to half the window the front and rear carbs,

After you set the fuel level in all 3 carbs, reset the idle on the center carb


Floats are adjusted properly
Ctr carb bottom of the sight hole
end carbs a very slight trickle out the sight hole

Starting point for Jets. center 65, front 78, rear 80. If the weather gets cold you might want to increase that to center 66, front 80, rear 82

Check the center carb and be sure to adjust the idle screw until the throttle blades are closed and the transfer slot is exposed no larger than a square. [carb would have to be off the car to see this]
You only want about .040" of the transfer slots exposed below the throttle plates.
If the idle screw is adjusted too high, you will be into the transition circuit, exposing too much of the vertical rectangular slot. Many times the idle screw is adjusted incorrectly to compensate for other issues. This puts the carb into the transition circuit and at that point you have no mixture control on the center carb.

Start car, set idle to 1000 rpm and allow engine to reach operating temp. 195 degree thermostat required or fuel will puddle in the intake. This is a must.

If the car won’t idle: Is engine vacuum reading at least 2 hg higher than the power valve rating?
This must be correct this before proceeding If ok proceed, if not correct power valve issue and proceed. Note some engines only pull 5 hg of vacuum

Now set the initial timing to where it wants to be. Somewhere between 10-20 degrees BTDC. The engine will tell you by increasing vacuum and rpm at this point. In some applications the engine does not care, so set it to 12 degrees BTDC.
Cams with 106-degree ctrlines seem to like initial timing set at 15-22 BTDC
Cams with 108-degree ctrlines seem to like initial timing set at 12-18 BTDC
Cams with 110-112 degree ctrlines seem to like initial timing set at 8-12 BTDC
center carb idle mixture screws out ccw 1.5 turns

Re-Set the rpm for 900-See if you have "control" over the idle mixture screws on the ctr carb. Using a good vacuum gage adj mixture to highest reading of vacuum. If you do not have control over the idle mixture you have issues that need to be taken care of before proceeding. Issues such as poor intake sealing, the wrong pcv valve, a vacuum leak from the brake booster or other places, wrong pwr valve etc.

Recheck idle rpm and set to 900
Drive car. Is the car rich? Jet down 2 steps until you find the min jet size. You will know when you are lean, no power.

Most times you are over jetted.... Do not over jet!

Now reset the initial timing again. Somewhere between 10-20 degrees BTDC. The engine will tell you by increasing vacuum and rpm at this point. In some applications the engine does not care, so set it to 15 degrees BTDC.

Re-Set the rpm for 900-See if you have "control" over the idle mixture screws. Using a good vacuum gage adj mixture to highest reading of vacuum.

Recheck idle rpm and set to 900

How do you know when you are "there”?
You should be able to idle most cars down to 800-900 rpm in neutral and the response is crisp. You do not smell raw gas in the exhaust. The bottom of the intake is not soaked with fuel. The spark plugs are clean. The car starts runs and drives smoothly when cold. The car restarts immediately when hot without touching the throttle. When you whack the throttle from an idle the engine immediately returns to idle.

Note: If your initial timing exceeds 12 degrees BTDC with a MP distributor typically you need to modify the advance curve so the total timing is not more than 34 degrees BTDC.


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