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Air fuel ratio measuring device. HELP #747303
07/13/10 10:26 AM
07/13/10 10:26 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 352
Bel Air Maryland USA 21014
wmwalden Offline OP
enthusiast
wmwalden  Offline OP
enthusiast

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 352
Bel Air Maryland USA 21014
Hi All,
I want to buy and use some kind of tuning device for my car.
(Welding bungs into the headers is not a problem.)
I want something that measures the fuel air ratio. Maybe logs the reading all the way down the track.
I run 1/2 and 1/2, meaning 1/2 cam 2 and 1/2 pump gas.
I think Cam 2 is leaded. And pump gas is unleaded. Does that cause a problem?
Any advice would greatly help.
What do you use?

thank you
Bill

Re: Air fuel ratio measuring device. HELP [Re: wmwalden] #747304
07/13/10 10:49 AM
07/13/10 10:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,436
Oklahoma City OK
Cudajon Offline
pro stock
Cudajon  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,436
Oklahoma City OK
Lead will kill the O2 sensor. You will have to replace it often. I run an autometer AF monitor. It will log your run but cannot be downloaded. The LM2 will do what you want. Somebody else will have to tell you if the AF reading will be accurate with leaded gas, but it will give you a reading till the O2 sensor dies.

Re: Air fuel ratio measuring device. HELP [Re: Cudajon] #747305
07/13/10 11:03 AM
07/13/10 11:03 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,705
A
Andrewh Offline
master
Andrewh  Offline
master
A

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,705
NGK makes one. Ballenger motor has the best prices right now.
No logging as far as I know.

There setup says it works with leaded fuels, and that the leaded fuel doesn't necessarliy kill the sensor, but could require more frequent recalibration. You have to pop it out of the bung and hang it in open air for 30 min with power.

Replacements are about 80 bucks, the whole kit was like 250 I think.

Re: Air fuel ratio measuring device. HELP [Re: Andrewh] #747306
07/13/10 03:35 PM
07/13/10 03:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 520
New Zealand
nz383man Offline
mopar
nz383man  Offline
mopar

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 520
New Zealand
Check out this link

http://www.gofastnews.com/showthread.php/1303-Air-Fuel-Ratio-Monitors

I had a post with every method/device I have ever tried posted on a small NZ Mopar site but it fell off so I'll look through my saved files later today & see what I can dig up, I thought I posted it on GoFastNews as well but can't find it.

Re: Air fuel ratio measuring device. HELP [Re: nz383man] #747307
07/14/10 05:15 AM
07/14/10 05:15 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 520
New Zealand
nz383man Offline
mopar
nz383man  Offline
mopar

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 520
New Zealand
Here is some info on air/fuel meters & sensors that I have used in the past.

Starting from the best to the worst (IMO)



Innovate LM2, using a wideband sensor in the exhaust, I own one, I thinks it’s great & I use the logging feature all the time, the SD card makes it easy to use. The LM2 also has OBDII for post ’96 US cars (& many other makes)



Innovate LM1, using a wideband sensor in the exhaust, I borrowed one off a mate & it convinced me that wideband was the only way to go.



This Hawk unit came from the local Police garage via Trademe. it is a bit safer than the older unit below as it only has wires going into the car from a sniffer panel that you attach to the back of the car. I tried it out on my partners stock '38 Chev & it worked fine, it is designed to be used while the car is being driven so the engine is tested under load.



An old Vane unit I borrowed, it could be found in tune up shops 20-30 years ago, it has a pipe that goes up the exhaust & another that expels the gas back outside the car.





Colortune, the little glass sparkplug that lets you see the colour of the flame inside the combustion chamber. It is a bit tricky to use this under load unless you have a dyno but what a great thing! I have used mine on cars, chainsaws, weedeaters & lawnmowers.

Holes in the hedder pipes just out from the heads, this was an old Smokey Yunick trick that let you see the colour of the flame as it left the head, once again not great without a dyno.

Exhaust gas temp, I may have been the problem on this one but I bought a good quality high temp probe & I just couldn’t get consistent numbers or for that matter exactly what they should be, everyone had a different opinion & things such as valve or ignition timing made a huge difference so I gave up.



Narrow band O2 meters, yea I suckered for one of these, I paid the bucks & got the 3 wire heated sensor, fitted it as close to the engine as pos etc etc. Narrow band sensors are exactly that, narrow band, they read fine at 14.7 & read crap everywhere else! They may look cool, the numbers do change but unless you want to go slow or lean burn your engine do not use one for tuning.

Plug reading, since they took the lead out of our gas it has become so hard to read plugs on pump gas it is not worth the effort & who wants to take the plugs out of an engine that has just been thrashed & shut off anyway?

Notes:
Here is an interesting instruction I found in the NGK AFX meter instructions-
The sensor should be mounted at least ten exhaust diameters upstream of the exhaust exit (ex. for a 3” exhaust pipe, that is 30”). If the sensor is mounted between one and ten exhaust diameters from the exhaust exit, the AFR measured will be leaner than the actual AFR by as much as 2 AFR at low engine speeds (i.e. less than 3000 rpm).

Some meters have the option of a fitting that goes up the tailpipe, we & others I have spoken to have got bad readings from doing this so I think the instruction from AFX is right on the money. With the old Vane unit that went up the tail pipe we had to funnel most of the exhaust into it to get a good reading at low rpm.

The only air/fuel adjustments that should be made in a garage without a dyno are idle & idle in gear in an auto, wheels chocked, person behind the wheel etc to adjust the carb from going lean under the pull away load. All other testing/adjusting should be done under load, on a dyno, dragstrip or the road. You should be able to get things very very close without too many lights & sirens if you use your head, load the car with weight, test in a lower gear on a steep hill, even if you don’t get perfect results at least you were out driving your Mopar & that’s all good.

Oxygen sensors do need some special care.

Anti-freeze will damage the sensor so a sensor would need changed after a blown head gasket.

RTV silicon fumes will damage the sensor so if you use silicon anywhere near a sensor make sure you get the sensor friendly type of silicon. Most good auto suppliers (rather than hardware shops) should carry it in stock.

Leaded fuel also harms sensors after a time so only fit the sensor for tuning then remove it.

Re: Air fuel ratio measuring device. HELP [Re: nz383man] #747308
07/14/10 09:36 AM
07/14/10 09:36 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 352
Bel Air Maryland USA 21014
wmwalden Offline OP
enthusiast
wmwalden  Offline OP
enthusiast

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 352
Bel Air Maryland USA 21014
Such great advice. Thank you

I will report back what I do.

Thanks again,
Bill

Re: Air fuel ratio measuring device. HELP [Re: wmwalden] #747309
07/14/10 10:12 AM
07/14/10 10:12 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,569
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick Offline
Still wishing...
Twostick  Offline
Still wishing...

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,569
Downtown Roebuck Ont
If you have a lap top the Innovate LC1 is probably the cheapest at around $200 and it will data log to a lap top.
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lc1.php

The LM2 does it all in a hand held unit but is a lot more expensive
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lm2.php

I use the LC1 to run the closed loop on my Holley EFI and it works great.

Kevin

Re: Air fuel ratio measuring device. HELP [Re: wmwalden] #747310
07/14/10 10:17 AM
07/14/10 10:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,074
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline
I Win
AndyF  Offline
I Win
A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,074
Oregon
AEM makes some nice gauges that you can mount in a panel in the car. I used to have an LM-1 but it couldn't be mounted in the car.

Re: Air fuel ratio measuring device. HELP [Re: AndyF] #747311
07/14/10 02:58 PM
07/14/10 02:58 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,968
North Riverside IL & Lowell IN
GTXKen Offline
super gas
GTXKen  Offline
super gas

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,968
North Riverside IL & Lowell IN
I have an LM-2, when not in use for the hot rod it makes a great portable code reader for my drivers. Easy to use as well.

Re: Air fuel ratio measuring device. HELP [Re: GTXKen] #747312
07/14/10 04:38 PM
07/14/10 04:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
Mopar_Rich Offline
top fuel
Mopar_Rich  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
Personally I don't like the systems that require frequent free-air calibration.

I like the FAST dual O2 type that include internal data logging and does not require any free air calibration.

The single O2 unit is about $350
The dual O2 unit is about $450

Re: Air fuel ratio measuring device. HELP [Re: Mopar_Rich] #747313
07/15/10 06:45 AM
07/15/10 06:45 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,907
Athens, Greece
Pyper70 Offline
master
Pyper70  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,907
Athens, Greece
I just picked up an Autometer 3378 because my 440 is running fat. When I make the swap to the Dual Quads I want to know what is going on at all RPMs before I do some damage. I already have the bungs welded on the exhaust. I bought a little Pelican case for it as well so I can mount it inside and put it on the shelf when I am not using it. Would suck real bad if it fell and nailed the ground.

Dropped $300 bones for it but I havent hooked it up yet. Gonna be a while. Still maladjusted to the time difference.


Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s
Re: Air fuel ratio measuring device. HELP [Re: wmwalden] #747314
07/15/10 09:24 AM
07/15/10 09:24 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila Offline
master
Crizila  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Quote:

Such great advice. Thank you

I will report back what I do.

Thanks again,
Bill


Me too. Thanks!


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