Re: What MSD doesn't tell you.
[Re: CHAPPER]
#747088
07/13/10 12:13 PM
07/13/10 12:13 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,848 Memphis
HemiRick
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master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,848
Memphis
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Quote:
."trigger polarity...". VERY important! I've been told by many that it makes no difference...BUT, I KNOW from past experiences that MSD must have a color blind person putting the leads in the connectors.
I 2nd this, I've had the same issue with my MSD 6. The polarity of the wires from the dist must be right for some units to work...
Take care, Rick 68 Coronet R/T 440 & 68 Charger 528 Hemi,and 5 Challengers! 6 cyl, 318, 360, 383, 451
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Re: What MSD doesn't tell you.
[Re: Cudajon]
#747089
07/13/10 12:14 PM
07/13/10 12:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,875 communist bloc of new jersey
jamesc
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,875
communist bloc of new jersey
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The important thing is that the sine wave goes above whatever voltage threshold to signal a 'high', and then that it goes below another lower voltage to signal a 'low'. It also has to stay above the 'high' voltage long enough for the electronics to detect it. (Same with the 'low' voltage).
exactly, i do believe they can select on which side of the slope it triggers as well. there may be more "noise" considerations with sine but you could get noise on a square system as well.
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Re: What MSD doesn't tell you.
[Re: Cudajon]
#747090
07/13/10 12:29 PM
07/13/10 12:29 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
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Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
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Generally we find most ignition problems are caused by interference,incorrect installation,backfeeds from other electronics,poor grounds,resistence, and plain stupidity.Without mentioning any names,we know a guy that destroyed a $30,000 engine cause he was so bright that he programed his racepac system and it would advance the timing 10 degrees for every 1000 rpms,so the initial timing was at 35 degrees at 1000 rpm, you do the math at 8000 rpm.He blame everyone from the engine builder to every parts manufacture involved including MSD.Look at the basics here,distributer was locked and timing was set at 35*(can't change),timing gears and chain is fixed(can't change),ignition box can only be controlled by imput,imput was controlled by racepac.Guess who was the Einstein who had their laptop hook to the racepac.Sometimes basic logic escapes common sence and the "Einstein" wants to bash and blame everyone else.I was at a football game and was watching the band at halftime,when I heard a mother standing near me comment that her son was the tuba player and as I watched him trip and stumble down the field,she commented:"look how bad the band is out of step with my son"
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Re: What MSD doesn't tell you.
[Re: B G Racing]
#747091
07/13/10 12:29 PM
07/13/10 12:29 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506 Az
Crizila
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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Quote:
I say MSD is so-so because their products suffer from poor QC, as others note, and their support is not so great either.
I've had an MSD 6 AL that would 'stop' all of a sudden, then 'start' again, all while I was sitting on the side of the road. I sent the box back and they charged me $50 to 'fix' it. I asked if they found something wrong and they said 'yes'. I asked what and they said (get this...) 'whatever it was that was causing it to stop working'.
Sure enough, I continued to have the same problem, only my wallet was $50 lighter.
"So-so" is what they get. When they move from Northern Mexico to somewhere where electricity is understood they might get better.
Good product,bad quality control like most all big companys today.It's "people problems" there are no conciencious craftsmen in the work place anymore.Look at most every successful manufacture and listen to all the complaints about quality control and service from the end users..
Most the people putting the stuff together today can't even spell craftsman. In todays environment, you don't want to buy anything that comes out of Mexico if you can help it.
Fastest 300
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Re: What MSD doesn't tell you.
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#747094
07/13/10 01:49 PM
07/13/10 01:49 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Eighty Four, PA
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OK, name an ignition system you think is BETTER than MSD and tell us why....not just because you say so.
Monte
W&H Daul Coil and Fairbanks Morse if we were back in the 1950s Just kidding Monte,I want to see if I could sound as stupid as some of the brilliant comments.Barry Grant,Indy,MSD and many others get bashed cause of someones fkups.Usually if someone has a ligitimate claim the manufactures bend over backwards to help.Most issues is caused by frustration and attitudes.
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Re: What MSD doesn't tell you.
[Re: B G Racing]
#747095
07/13/10 01:59 PM
07/13/10 01:59 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,062 Western New York
sixpackbee
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Joined: Nov 2003
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Western New York
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I have been running MSD products for decades. Never had an issue. Even sent an old 7AL in for upgrades and rev limit install and check a 2 Step. They did the upgrades installed a rev limiter and sent a NEW 2 step for the huge sum of 85.00 with shipping. I have also used MSD's with the MP type distributors with zero problems.
1959 Bugeye Sprite 1967 Charger Black L code 1967 Coronet R/T Convert Green 440 auto bought from original owner 1968 Charger R/T Bronze 440 4 spd console AM/FM 1969 Super Bee WM21H B5 A40 D21 N96 1969 Barracuda Formula S 340 Convert pilot car 1969 Hemi Road Runner RM23J D32 Omaha orange 4.10 Dana N96 N85 1970 Super Bee WM23N FE5 V1X 3.91 axle package, N96 1970 Road Runner RM21N B3 V1X D13 1971 MG Midget 1971 Road Runner RM23H GW3, A57 1972 Road Runner RM23P FY1, D21
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Re: What MSD doesn't tell you.
[Re: sixpackbee]
#747096
07/13/10 02:07 PM
07/13/10 02:07 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
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Quote:
I have been running MSD products for decades. Never had an issue. Even sent an old 7AL in for upgrades and rev limit install and check a 2 Step. They did the upgrades installed a rev limiter and sent a NEW 2 step for the huge sum of 85.00 with shipping. I have also used MSD's with the MP type distributors with zero problems.
I think you are part of a conspiracy put in place by MSD.A sleeper cell do you know any Robert Frost poems hidden in your subliminal mind?
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Re: What MSD doesn't tell you.
[Re: GregCon]
#747100
07/13/10 02:33 PM
07/13/10 02:33 PM
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 705 Michigan
Hemiroid
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 705
Michigan
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I love the posters who think they can win an argument by calling someone crazy. You guys have it figured out - I have been lying all along about my MSD failures in order to cover up my involvement in the Kennedy/Oswald matter.
Now for the adults on this BB....
In a sense, MSD might well be the best aftermarket ignition by default - but that doesn't hold them above criticism.
If we use reliability as a main criteria, then just about any OEM offers a better product. I have never seen a contemporary GM, Ford or Mopar ignition fail to produce spark. True, they won't spin to 10,000RPM but that ability doesn't mean much of you can't get to the first 1,000RPM.
I'll also bet the ignition provided by a Motronics or FAST box is far better. The truth is the automotive world begs cheapness. When you are selling a box for $500 you won't be able use the best of anything in it. If heavy industry used ignition boxes you'd see $15,000 boxes that never, ever failed.
If you haven't seem OE ignitions fail and not provide spark then you might want to back out of this discussion due to a lack of information and real world experience.
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Re: What MSD doesn't tell you.
[Re: GregCon]
#747101
07/13/10 02:45 PM
07/13/10 02:45 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
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Quote:
I love the posters who think they can win an argument by calling someone crazy. You guys have it figured out - I have been lying all along about my MSD failures in order to cover up my involvement in the Kennedy/Oswald matter.
Now for the adults on this BB....
In a sense, MSD might well be the best aftermarket ignition by default - but that doesn't hold them above criticism.
If we use reliability as a main criteria, then just about any OEM offers a better product. I have never seen a contemporary GM, Ford or Mopar ignition fail to produce spark. True, they won't spin to 10,000RPM but that ability doesn't mean much of you can't get to the first 1,000RPM.
I'll also bet the ignition provided by a Motronics or FAST box is far better. The truth is the automotive world begs cheapness. When you are selling a box for $500 you won't be able use the best of anything in it. If heavy industry used ignition boxes you'd see $15,000 boxes that never, ever failed.
At the risk of being imature,we have over 500 units of specialized equipment for construction,mining and tunneling with ECUs that have vary sophisticated functions and have to work in unbelivable conditions.On some $15,000 wouldn't cover the cost of a technician to come from Germany or Sweden to trouble shoot them let alone replace them.I would file it under shtz happens,as nothing is guaranteed to be perfect and last a lifetime.I'am in the "heavy industry" and know the cost of flying in emergency parts and it pales in compariason to "down time" cost. Sorry you don't like our light hearted humor.
Last edited by B G Racing; 07/13/10 02:47 PM.
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Re: What MSD doesn't tell you.
[Re: Hemiroid]
#747102
07/13/10 02:52 PM
07/13/10 02:52 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,166 Left Coast
BobR
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,166
Left Coast
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Quote:
Quote:
I love the posters who think they can win an argument by calling someone crazy. You guys have it figured out - I have been lying all along about my MSD failures in order to cover up my involvement in the Kennedy/Oswald matter.
Now for the adults on this BB....
In a sense, MSD might well be the best aftermarket ignition by default - but that doesn't hold them above criticism.
If we use reliability as a main criteria, then just about any OEM offers a better product. I have never seen a contemporary GM, Ford or Mopar ignition fail to produce spark. True, they won't spin to 10,000RPM but that ability doesn't mean much of you can't get to the first 1,000RPM.
I'll also bet the ignition provided by a Motronics or FAST box is far better. The truth is the automotive world begs cheapness. When you are selling a box for $500 you won't be able use the best of anything in it. If heavy industry used ignition boxes you'd see $15,000 boxes that never, ever failed.
If you haven't seem OE ignitions fail and not provide spark then you might want to back out of this discussion due to a lack of information and real world experience.
Beat me to it. Hemi heads are junk for top fuel too. The only reason EVERYONE uses them is because there's nothing better.
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Re: What MSD doesn't tell you.
[Re: B G Racing]
#747103
07/13/10 03:03 PM
07/13/10 03:03 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,062 Western New York
sixpackbee
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,062
Western New York
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At the end of the day it all comes down to "we", corporations as well as indviduals, can not and will not ever bat 100%. There will be some unfortunate folks that get that bad widget that came down the line. If it is one in a thousand that day I would rate that as pretty good.
1959 Bugeye Sprite 1967 Charger Black L code 1967 Coronet R/T Convert Green 440 auto bought from original owner 1968 Charger R/T Bronze 440 4 spd console AM/FM 1969 Super Bee WM21H B5 A40 D21 N96 1969 Barracuda Formula S 340 Convert pilot car 1969 Hemi Road Runner RM23J D32 Omaha orange 4.10 Dana N96 N85 1970 Super Bee WM23N FE5 V1X 3.91 axle package, N96 1970 Road Runner RM21N B3 V1X D13 1971 MG Midget 1971 Road Runner RM23H GW3, A57 1972 Road Runner RM23P FY1, D21
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