Moparts

What MSD doesn't tell you.

Posted By: kieron_kohlmann

What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 04:16 AM

I posted this on the MSD page, but im sure it will get deleted. please note i experienced problem with a 7 series, but i hear a 6 MAY have problems too.

So the source of my problem was this: I am using a Mopar Electronic ignition pickup. This pickup using a reluctor wheel thus producing a Sine Wave or Analog Pattern. The MSD 7 series in particular needs to see a Digital signal or square pattern to properly fire a cylinder. Anyone with an advanced knowledge of automotive electrical systems should know this. My question is why in your catalog does it clearly state: "It will accept trigger signals from points/ECU output or a magnetic pickup.". Due to your simple catalog error I have spend 2 weeks wasting time and money trying to figure out why my ignition wont work. Being the #1 Student auto tech in the nation right now i wondered how you could accurately send a signal to something as complex as a programable 7 with a sine wave. I trusted your catalog, since you hire engineers and other various electronic competent employees to perform your design/testing process. It baffles me to know that something so simple slipped by everyone there, including technical support; who insisted my 7530T was defective and had to be returned. OK, that understandable, so i buy a 7535 and install it. I still have the exact same problem, but i just spend another $700+$50 for shipping. Once again i call tech support and you insist i need a crank trigger. Why? you dont know; only because some guy in Russia had the same problem on a Monte Carlo. Nice. All i can say is there needs to be some clarification in your catalog as to the workings of an msd. I'm an 18 year old kid working at a Dodge Dealership and I can figure out why my ignition is screwing up and tech support is throwing out guesses, something is wrong with that picture. Please clarify your products so other people dont waste their time and money. Kieron Kohlmann 2010 SKILLS/USA National Winner http://racinepost-schools.

blogspot.com/2010/06/kieron-kohlmann-wins-national.html
Posted By: sixpakdodge

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 04:23 AM

In simple terms, I'm assuming you're trying to use an MSD 7-AL? box with a Mopar distributor/wiring?

I run that setup on two cars without problem.
Posted By: kieron_kohlmann

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 04:26 AM

negative. progrmable 7 with mopar distributer pickup. ive ran a 7al2 with no problem using a distributer. i guess things change.
Posted By: hemigod426

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 04:31 AM

hi.. what was your problem with ignition?miss fires? ive always thought mopar dizzy to be same principle as crank tigger, instead little reluctor inside with 8 points to pass magnectic pickup. ive always used 6als with m/p dizzys, but ive never seen anyone with 7 series with stock type mopar dizzy, that could be why
Posted By: jamesc

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 05:49 AM

MSD = Mighty Stupid Design. yes i know they're the leader in automotive ignitions but i've never cared for the way they package their stuff. imho holley had the right idea way back when and i still use their ignitions but they just couldn't compete with msd. i'm not an engineer so i can't speak at that level. most digital stuff wants to see a square wave but afaik they can condition the sine signal and basically make it a square wave. when holley was doing their ignitions i was in close contact with the factory for a number of reasons. there was a change in the management so i ended up dealing with a different person that commented the previous individuals were OK with using a sine wave to trigger the digital but he was against it and felt it MUST be a square wave so you would need a hall effect or similar. i did get a couple hall effect sensors but never installed them as i have never had any problems with the standard sine wave magnetic pickup triggering the ignition. personally i find it hard to believe msd would design their digital ignitions so they only accept a square wave input given that most "triggers" used would probably be sine wave. i would "think" with all the R&D and engineering they have at their disposal they would have designed their digital ignition to accept a sine input but what do i know. on another note imho i wouldn't be using a stock mopar distributor to trigger an ignition of that caliber anyhow as it kinda defeats the purpose. one thing to be cautious of is trigger polarity, get it backwards and they can do all kind of strange things.

on another note and don't take it personally, coming off cocky like that isn't the best way to go about things. yes you won a bunch of awards but remember this quote and it's meaning

"If I have seen further it is only by standing on the shoulders of giants"

you weren't born with that knowledge...someone gave it to you. fwiw my father taught auto shop at a high school and vocational level for 20 years
Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 05:52 AM

A digital 7 box works fine with a mopar magnetic pickup distributor, you have another issue.

Monte
Posted By: 408Dust

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 07:20 AM

x2
Posted By: cowbay

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 09:48 AM

Quote:

x2


No problems for me. I had some problems on the set up and they walked me through the issues over the phone. One of the best tech lines I have dealt with. This is a perfect example of different strokes for different folks
Posted By: B G Racing

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 10:24 AM

Quote:

A digital 7 box works fine with a mopar magnetic pickup distributor, you have another issue.

Monte




X1000 Look else where.
Posted By: rickstershemi

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 11:18 AM

Quote:

A digital 7 box works fine with a mopar magnetic pickup distributor, you have another issue.

Monte



^^^^^^^^^What he said.....I know many guys running the Dig-7 with magnetic pickup dizzies

One thing to look out for is that you don't run the trigger wire next to or parallel with any power source wiring

Rickster
Posted By: GregCon

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 11:53 AM

MSD is a so-so company. You can look to see where they are located and that should tell you plenty.

That said, there's no reason a digital device can't work off a sine wave. It happens millions of time every day in all sorts of applications. Don't forget, almost (and I mean basically all) AC power is sine wave power and there are hundreds of thousands of digital devices working in harmony with them. I'd bet a Hemi Daytona your house is powered by sine wave power that is regulated by digital controls.

Do you mean it won't work at all, or it won't work properly? Does the car start and run poorly or not at all?

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 12:09 PM

MSD is a so-so company,well they have pulled of one of the most successful hoaxs perpetuated on the racing community in years.I would call that "success".Some of my 7-ALs are over 20 years old and still working,even those with Mopar distributers.We don't claim to have won any awards but our reputation,customer base and profit statements speak volumes and may be part of the reason we have survived in the business for 50 years. BGR"racers helping racers" Just thought we would do a little horn tooting for the crew of "Misfits"
Posted By: CHAPPER

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 12:17 PM

.."trigger polarity...". VERY important! I've been told by many that it makes no difference...BUT, I KNOW from past experiences that MSD must have a color blind person putting the leads in the connectors. I have recieved units wired wrong at the connectors and it will cause a bunch of different conditions, from no start, hard start, start OK but break-up at higher RPM's, irratic timing light, etc.
Posted By: GregCon

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 12:51 PM

I say MSD is so-so because their products suffer from poor QC, as others note, and their support is not so great either.

I've had an MSD 6 AL that would 'stop' all of a sudden, then 'start' again, all while I was sitting on the side of the road. I sent the box back and they charged me $50 to 'fix' it. I asked if they found something wrong and they said 'yes'. I asked what and they said (get this...) 'whatever it was that was causing it to stop working'.

Sure enough, I continued to have the same problem, only my wallet was $50 lighter.

"So-so" is what they get. When they move from Northern Mexico to somewhere where electricity is understood they might get better.
Posted By: B G Racing

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 12:59 PM

Quote:

I say MSD is so-so because their products suffer from poor QC, as others note, and their support is not so great either.

I've had an MSD 6 AL that would 'stop' all of a sudden, then 'start' again, all while I was sitting on the side of the road. I sent the box back and they charged me $50 to 'fix' it. I asked if they found something wrong and they said 'yes'. I asked what and they said (get this...) 'whatever it was that was causing it to stop working'.

Sure enough, I continued to have the same problem, only my wallet was $50 lighter.

"So-so" is what they get. When they move from Northern Mexico to somewhere where electricity is understood they might get better.




Good product,bad quality control like most all big companys today.It's "people problems" there are no conciencious craftsmen in the work place anymore.Look at most every successful manufacture and listen to all the complaints about quality control and service from the end users..
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 01:13 PM

Quote:

I say MSD is so-so because their products suffer from poor QC, as others note, and their support is not so great either.

I've had an MSD 6 AL that would 'stop' all of a sudden, then 'start' again, all while I was sitting on the side of the road. I sent the box back and they charged me $50 to 'fix' it. I asked if they found something wrong and they said 'yes'. I asked what and they said (get this...) 'whatever it was that was causing it to stop working'.

Sure enough, I continued to have the same problem, only my wallet was $50 lighter.

"So-so" is what they get. When they move from Northern Mexico to somewhere where electricity is understood they might get better.



I had a high rpm miss that was driving me crazy and
finally changed to my spare 7al box... problem was
gone so to verify the problem I put the box back on
and the problem was back (I did this 3 times to verify)
and sent the box back to MSD.. they told me nothing
was wrong with it BUT when I got it back the problem
no longer was there with the box(I cant say for sure
if they sent me a different box or not... I didnt
have any special mark on it).... in the end would
I junk my MSD stuff for 1 problem... let me think... NO
Posted By: BobR

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 01:15 PM

Quote:

A digital 7 box works fine with a mopar magnetic pickup distributor, you have another issue.

Monte



I agree. That's exactly what was on my last race car. No issues at all. Sometimes a little knowledge is a bad thing.
Posted By: BobR

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 01:18 PM

Quote:

MSD is a so-so company,well they have pulled of one of the most successful hoaxs perpetuated on the racing community in years.I would call that "success".Some of my 7-ALs are over 20 years old and still working,even those with Mopar distributers.We don't claim to have won any awards but our reputation,customer base and profit statements speak volumes and may be part of the reason we have survived in the business for 50 years. BGR"racers helping racers" Just thought we would do a little horn tooting for the crew of "Misfits"



Yep BG. I don't know why the bad rep for some guys but there is no better ignition either now or on the horizon. They are the absolute cutting edge leader in this area.
Posted By: B G Racing

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 01:36 PM

Quote:

Quote:

A digital 7 box works fine with a mopar magnetic pickup distributor, you have another issue.

Monte



I agree. That's exactly what was on my last race car. No issues at all. Sometimes a little knowledge is a bad thing.



To qoute someone smarter than me"We all judge ourselves by what we think we know and who we think we are,others judge us from what we have accomplished in life"
Posted By: BobR

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 01:45 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

A digital 7 box works fine with a mopar magnetic pickup distributor, you have another issue.

Monte



I agree. That's exactly what was on my last race car. No issues at all. Sometimes a little knowledge is a bad thing.



To qoute someone smarter than me"We all judge ourselves by what we think we know and who we think we are,others judge us from what we have accomplished in life"



That's one to remember.
Posted By: hooziewhatsit

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 03:11 PM

Quote:

i'm not an engineer so i can't speak at that level. most digital stuff wants to see a square wave but afaik they can condition the sine signal and basically make it a square wave. when holley was doing their ignitions i was in close contact with the factory for a number of reasons. there was a change in the management so i ended up dealing with a different person that commented the previous individuals were OK with using a sine wave to trigger the digital but he was against it and felt it MUST be a square wave so you would need a hall effect or similar. i did get a couple hall effect sensors but never installed them as i have never had any problems with the standard sine wave magnetic pickup triggering the ignition. personally i find it hard to believe msd would design their digital ignitions so they only accept a square wave input given that most "triggers" used would probably be sine wave. i would "think" with all the R&D and engineering they have at their disposal they would have designed their digital ignition to accept a sine input but what do i know. on another note imho i wouldn't be using a stock mopar distributor to trigger an ignition of that caliber anyhow as it kinda defeats the purpose. one thing to be cautious of is trigger polarity, get it backwards and they can do all kind of strange things.



At higher frequencies, square waves start to look more like sine waves.

The important thing is that the sine wave goes above whatever voltage threshold to signal a 'high', and then that it goes below another lower voltage to signal a 'low'. It also has to stay above the 'high' voltage long enough for the electronics to detect it. (Same with the 'low' voltage). As long as these requirements are met, you can feed the electronics with pretty much any shape of wave.
Posted By: Cudajon

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 03:58 PM

Most electronics work fine with a sine wave, square waves are only required where there is a time involved that is read by the length of the wave at the top such as an electronic fuel injector that uses that time to control the length of the pulse for fuel delivery. You have another problem, not the shape of the wave.
Posted By: HemiRick

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 04:13 PM

Quote:

."trigger polarity...". VERY important! I've been told by many that it makes no difference...BUT, I KNOW from past experiences that MSD must have a color blind person putting the leads in the connectors.



I 2nd this, I've had the same issue with my MSD 6. The polarity of the wires from the dist must be right for some units to work...
Posted By: jamesc

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 04:14 PM

Quote:

The important thing is that the sine wave goes above whatever voltage threshold to signal a 'high', and then that it goes below another lower voltage to signal a 'low'. It also has to stay above the 'high' voltage long enough for the electronics to detect it. (Same with the 'low' voltage).



exactly, i do believe they can select on which side of the slope it triggers as well. there may be more "noise" considerations with sine but you could get noise on a square system as well.
Posted By: B G Racing

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 04:29 PM

Generally we find most ignition problems are caused by interference,incorrect installation,backfeeds from other electronics,poor grounds,resistence, and plain stupidity.Without mentioning any names,we know a guy that destroyed a $30,000 engine cause he was so bright that he programed his racepac system and it would advance the timing 10 degrees for every 1000 rpms,so the initial timing was at 35 degrees at 1000 rpm, you do the math at 8000 rpm.He blame everyone from the engine builder to every parts manufacture involved including MSD.Look at the basics here,distributer was locked and timing was set at 35*(can't change),timing gears and chain is fixed(can't change),ignition box can only be controlled by imput,imput was controlled by racepac.Guess who was the Einstein who had their laptop hook to the racepac.Sometimes basic logic escapes common sence and the "Einstein" wants to bash and blame everyone else.I was at a football game and was watching the band at halftime,when I heard a mother standing near me comment that her son was the tuba player and as I watched him trip and stumble down the field,she commented:"look how bad the band is out of step with my son"
Posted By: Crizila

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 04:29 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I say MSD is so-so because their products suffer from poor QC, as others note, and their support is not so great either.

I've had an MSD 6 AL that would 'stop' all of a sudden, then 'start' again, all while I was sitting on the side of the road. I sent the box back and they charged me $50 to 'fix' it. I asked if they found something wrong and they said 'yes'. I asked what and they said (get this...) 'whatever it was that was causing it to stop working'.

Sure enough, I continued to have the same problem, only my wallet was $50 lighter.

"So-so" is what they get. When they move from Northern Mexico to somewhere where electricity is understood they might get better.




Good product,bad quality control like most all big companys today.It's "people problems" there are no conciencious craftsmen in the work place anymore.Look at most every successful manufacture and listen to all the complaints about quality control and service from the end users..

Most the people putting the stuff together today can't even spell craftsman. In todays environment, you don't want to buy anything that comes out of Mexico if you can help it.
Posted By: GregCon

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 05:17 PM

As for "MSD is the most successful so that makes them the best" let me list a few others that would fit into that category:

Chevrolet (in the 1960's)
Microsoft
GE
Michael Jackson
Jesse Jackson
Oprah Winfrey
AT&T


So we see that the skill of learning how to be sucky and make people still buy your product is not to be confused with 'best'.
Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 05:39 PM

OK, name an ignition system you think is BETTER than MSD and tell us why....not just because you say so.

Monte
Posted By: B G Racing

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 05:49 PM

Quote:

OK, name an ignition system you think is BETTER than MSD and tell us why....not just because you say so.

Monte




W&H Daul Coil and Fairbanks Morse if we were back in the 1950s Just kidding Monte,I want to see if I could sound as stupid as some of the brilliant comments.Barry Grant,Indy,MSD and many others get bashed cause of someones fkups.Usually if someone has a ligitimate claim the manufactures bend over backwards to help.Most issues is caused by frustration and attitudes.
Posted By: sixpackbee

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 05:59 PM

I have been running MSD products for decades. Never had an issue. Even sent an old 7AL in for upgrades and rev limit install and check a 2 Step. They did the upgrades installed a rev limiter and sent a NEW 2 step for the huge sum of 85.00 with shipping. I have also used MSD's with the MP type distributors with zero problems.
Posted By: B G Racing

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 06:07 PM

Quote:

I have been running MSD products for decades. Never had an issue. Even sent an old 7AL in for upgrades and rev limit install and check a 2 Step. They did the upgrades installed a rev limiter and sent a NEW 2 step for the huge sum of 85.00 with shipping. I have also used MSD's with the MP type distributors with zero problems.




I think you are part of a conspiracy put in place by MSD.A sleeper cell do you know any Robert Frost poems hidden in your subliminal mind?
Posted By: sixpackbee

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 06:22 PM

Quote:

do you know any Robert Frost poems hidden in your subliminal mind?


There was an old man from Kent,.....
Posted By: Twostick

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 06:27 PM

I would be willing to bet the OP's problem is RFI related. RFI from in the distributor cap is being transmitted thru the pick-up wiring to his digital MSD and raising he!! with it. He is sort of correct with the digital signal stuff but if he shields the wires from the pick-up to the box it should work OK. Had the same problem with my Holley EFI ecm. A Hall Effect pick-up would also solve the problem.

The reason MSD says he needs a crank trigger is because it isolates the pick-up from the RFI and the box then gets a clean signal. If he was half as smart as he thinks he is he should have figured that out before he bought the other box.

Kevin
Posted By: GregCon

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 06:29 PM

I love the posters who think they can win an argument by calling someone crazy. You guys have it figured out - I have been lying all along about my MSD failures in order to cover up my involvement in the Kennedy/Oswald matter.

Now for the adults on this BB....

In a sense, MSD might well be the best aftermarket ignition by default - but that doesn't hold them above criticism.

If we use reliability as a main criteria, then just about any OEM offers a better product. I have never seen a contemporary GM, Ford or Mopar ignition fail to produce spark. True, they won't spin to 10,000RPM but that ability doesn't mean much of you can't get to the first 1,000RPM.

I'll also bet the ignition provided by a Motronics or FAST box is far better.

The truth is the automotive world begs cheapness. When you are selling a box for $500 you won't be able use the best of anything in it. If heavy industry used ignition boxes you'd see $15,000 boxes that never, ever failed.
Posted By: Hemiroid

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 06:33 PM

Quote:

I love the posters who think they can win an argument by calling someone crazy. You guys have it figured out - I have been lying all along about my MSD failures in order to cover up my involvement in the Kennedy/Oswald matter.

Now for the adults on this BB....

In a sense, MSD might well be the best aftermarket ignition by default - but that doesn't hold them above criticism.

If we use reliability as a main criteria, then just about any OEM offers a better product. I have never seen a contemporary GM, Ford or Mopar ignition fail to produce spark. True, they won't spin to 10,000RPM but that ability doesn't mean much of you can't get to the first 1,000RPM.

I'll also bet the ignition provided by a Motronics or FAST box is far better.

The truth is the automotive world begs cheapness. When you are selling a box for $500 you won't be able use the best of anything in it. If heavy industry used ignition boxes you'd see $15,000 boxes that never, ever failed.



If you haven't seem OE ignitions fail and not provide spark then you might want to back out of this discussion due to a lack of information and real world experience.
Posted By: B G Racing

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 06:45 PM

Quote:

I love the posters who think they can win an argument by calling someone crazy. You guys have it figured out - I have been lying all along about my MSD failures in order to cover up my involvement in the Kennedy/Oswald matter.

Now for the adults on this BB....

In a sense, MSD might well be the best aftermarket ignition by default - but that doesn't hold them above criticism.

If we use reliability as a main criteria, then just about any OEM offers a better product. I have never seen a contemporary GM, Ford or Mopar ignition fail to produce spark. True, they won't spin to 10,000RPM but that ability doesn't mean much of you can't get to the first 1,000RPM.

I'll also bet the ignition provided by a Motronics or FAST box is far better.

The truth is the automotive world begs cheapness. When you are selling a box for $500 you won't be able use the best of anything in it. If heavy industry used ignition boxes you'd see $15,000 boxes that never, ever failed.



At the risk of being imature,we have over 500 units of specialized equipment for construction,mining and tunneling with ECUs that have vary sophisticated functions and have to work in unbelivable conditions.On some $15,000 wouldn't cover the cost of a technician to come from Germany or Sweden to trouble shoot them let alone replace them.I would file it under shtz happens,as nothing is guaranteed to be perfect and last a lifetime.I'am in the "heavy industry" and know the cost of flying in emergency parts and it pales in compariason to "down time" cost. Sorry you don't like our light hearted humor.
Posted By: BobR

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 06:52 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I love the posters who think they can win an argument by calling someone crazy. You guys have it figured out - I have been lying all along about my MSD failures in order to cover up my involvement in the Kennedy/Oswald matter.

Now for the adults on this BB....

In a sense, MSD might well be the best aftermarket ignition by default - but that doesn't hold them above criticism.

If we use reliability as a main criteria, then just about any OEM offers a better product. I have never seen a contemporary GM, Ford or Mopar ignition fail to produce spark. True, they won't spin to 10,000RPM but that ability doesn't mean much of you can't get to the first 1,000RPM.

I'll also bet the ignition provided by a Motronics or FAST box is far better.

The truth is the automotive world begs cheapness. When you are selling a box for $500 you won't be able use the best of anything in it. If heavy industry used ignition boxes you'd see $15,000 boxes that never, ever failed.



If you haven't seem OE ignitions fail and not provide spark then you might want to back out of this discussion due to a lack of information and real world experience.



Beat me to it.
Hemi heads are junk for top fuel too. The only reason EVERYONE uses them is because there's nothing better.
Posted By: sixpackbee

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 07:03 PM

At the end of the day it all comes down to "we", corporations as well as indviduals, can not and will not ever bat 100%. There will be some unfortunate folks that get that bad widget that came down the line. If it is one in a thousand that day I would rate that as pretty good.
Posted By: 602heavy

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 07:10 PM

.....& out of 1 in a 1000 boxes how many are mis diagnosed? , many a time i've swapped out componants to find it was something else , half the complaints on the MSD site should of never been written.

BTW , i was a student from hell.
Posted By: Crizila

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 07:13 PM

Quote:

Quote:

do you know any Robert Frost poems hidden in your subliminal mind?


There was an old man from Kent,.....

U mean Nantucket!
Posted By: BobR

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 08:09 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

do you know any Robert Frost poems hidden in your subliminal mind?


There was an old man from Kent,.....

U mean Nantucket!



I heard about that dude...
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 08:17 PM

If you haven't seem OE ignitions fail and not provide spark then you might want to back out of this discussion due to a lack of information and real world experience.




I cant count how many dist pick ups I've changed in
the 4 cyl engines in the 80s when I worked in a Chrysler
driveability shop
Posted By: Quicktree

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 08:34 PM

Quote:

As for "MSD is the most successful so that makes them the best" let me list a few others that would fit into that category:

Chevrolet (in the 1960's)
Microsoft
GE
Michael Jackson
Jesse Jackson
Oprah Winfrey
AT&T


So we see that the skill of learning how to be sucky and make people still buy your product is not to be confused with 'best'.

where did you come from? ever think about going back
Posted By: sshemi

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 08:43 PM

WOW....
Posted By: HemiGreg

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 09:10 PM

well as a student of auto electronics, take this exp as a learning curve. nothing else.
like BG said every Co has its kooky mgrs and workers who only look out for the bouns.

anyway the problem at hand is your sine input Vs the needed digital.
you dont explain if you need a leading edge and at what level of triggering was required. a simple lookl with an O scope will clear that up. asle a clamping diode will clean up your rising and falling edges of the pulses.
ive fixed dozen ignitions and every unit has different "clean" input requirements.
im sure since you are top dog student you realized you probably got a magnetized reluctor by some dummy using a steel feeler gauge and therefore providing that sine magnetic pulse. check it with a gauss meter and let us know.
you can fire a digital with a 45% slope on input sooo something is not right in whooville today.
Posted By: CHAPPER

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 09:39 PM

"There once was a hermit named Dave
who kept a dead---in his cave,"
Posted By: slantzilla

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 09:42 PM

Quote:

Quote:

."trigger polarity...". VERY important! I've been told by many that it makes no difference...BUT, I KNOW from past experiences that MSD must have a color blind person putting the leads in the connectors.



I 2nd this, I've had the same issue with my MSD 6. The polarity of the wires from the dist must be right for some units to work...



If you reverse the wires it will change timing as much as 30 degrees. One direction the wires give a reading off the front of the reluctor and the other way it reads off the back of the reluctor as it goes by.

Guess how I know this?
Posted By: Chris'sBarracuda

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 09:44 PM

Quote:

OK, name an ignition system you think is BETTER than MSD and tell us why....not just because you say so.

Monte




I think the Crane HI-7 and HI-8 ignitions with the DEC9500 boxes were the best when they came out 10+ years ago, and still work as good if not better than any MSD units.
It's really too bad Crane didn't market those any better, they are very dependable. Alot of the Pro Stockers used them until they were mandated to use the MSD 7530T ?? box. I know Warren Johnson used Crane till the very end.

Anyway, I still use my Crane with no issues, after getting rid of my MSD which always had issues. I have two spares, so I'm good till I die..


Chris..
Posted By: tubtar

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 09:55 PM

Quote:

Quote:


I think you are part of a conspiracy put in place by MSD.A sleeper cell do you know any Robert Frost poems hidden in your subliminal mind?



Oh man ............ that is the funniest bit of writing I have put eye to in a good bit.
Way funnier than I expect from a " serious " forum like this.
Bob , I'd love to expound on your comedic brilliance some more , but as you well know , The woods are lovely , dark and deep.
But I have promises to keep......and miles to go before I sleep.






Miles to go before I sleep.




Nope , not a Frost fan per se , but a huge Charlie Bronson fan.
Posted By: HemiGreg

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 10:04 PM



Attached picture 6083939-VR-polarity.gif
Posted By: HemiGreg

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 10:05 PM



Attached picture 6083941-VR_teeth_mismatched.jpg
Posted By: HemiGreg

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 10:06 PM



Attached picture 6083947-VR_teeth_matched.jpg
Posted By: GregCon

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 11:12 PM

"If you haven't seem OE ignitions fail and not provide spark then you might want to back out of this discussion due to a lack of information and real world experience."

In the real world, if I was you, I would read what is written before I reply. Nowhere did I say what you posted. I said CONTEMPORARY.
Posted By: B G Racing

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/13/10 11:20 PM

HemiGreg has humble us all again.
Posted By: roadhazard

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/14/10 01:05 AM

Quote:

HemiGreg has humble us all again.



To the 5th power
trying to learn something new but now I'm all backwards
Posted By: SCDaytona

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/14/10 01:09 AM

Quote:

Quote:

OK, name an ignition system you think is BETTER than MSD and tell us why....not just because you say so.

Monte




W&H Daul Coil and Fairbanks Morse if we were back in the 1950s Just kidding Monte,I want to see if I could sound as stupid as some of the brilliant comments.Barry Grant,Indy,MSD and many others get bashed cause of someones fkups.Usually if someone has a ligitimate claim the manufactures bend over backwards to help.Most issues is caused by frustration and attitudes.



You've got to be kidding about Barry Grant.
Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/14/10 06:17 AM

Polarity is an easy check. You fire the car and check the timing. Swap the connector wires, fire it and check again............Now, if you have an Analog box, the wiring that gives the lowest timing number is correct. A Digital box, will be wired correctly with the highest number. The difference is usually 4-8 degrees. Also, if you have a "locked" dist, or a crank trigger and the timing "backs up" as you raise rpms, the polarity is likely backwards.

Monte
Posted By: tboomer

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/14/10 10:42 AM

MSD 6AL here..It takes a lickin and keeps on tickin...And if it failed...I would get another one!!
Posted By: sshemi

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/14/10 11:10 AM

WOW again.
Posted By: B3422W5

Re: What MSD doesn't tell you. - 07/14/10 07:50 PM

My take on MSD is this.

Over the years i have had a few MSD boxes, and for the most part they have worked fine. I did have a problem with a 6AL a few years back, that i proved was in the box, but hey, stuff breaks, nothing is infallible.

What MSD enjoys is a virtual stranglehold on the performance ignition market.Its a niche market that they OWN.

Pretty much any magazine you look at, the various prices you see they're stuff listed for are identical, same pretty much with Jegs, summit and everybody else, with very rare exceptions.

As they have hardly any competition, and its unlikely anybody is going to step up and spend the R&D and initial investent and marketing money to challenge them, its very likely the generally poor customer service they provide will ever get any better. Why would it, no other company makes a similar product that would force MSD to keep they're feet to the fire from a " treating customers great" standpoint.

Its kinda like the car business 25 years ago, only the domestics were out there, and say what you will, quality was many times lacking.

With the Japanese and everybody else now offering cars here, it has " forced" the product across the board to be better. Its just a plain old fact that that is how it is.

MSD has nobody, competition wise, to force them to do the above. Its actually somewhat of a feather in they're cap that the products are as reliable as they are with this being the case.

Long story short, they aint perfect, and they are a little crusty to talk to, but they own the only game in town


Kinda like Indy in some ways
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