How can I tell if I damaged my Sprag?
#739457
07/03/10 04:06 PM
07/03/10 04:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 401
Ohio, USA
Dr-Dave2
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Last night I took my still in progress street-strip 66 Coronet to a test and tune at Pacemakers in Mt. Vernon Ohio for its first shakedown 1/8th mile runs. Everthing in the driveline is new and except for a few street miles untested. it has a Fresh 10-1 hyd cam stealth head 440, new strange 3.54 power-loc Dana, New M/T 275-60-15 drag radials & New John Cope auto shift 727 with TF-2 kit and a 5200 govener but shifts at 5500 or 5600 I was having a hard time keeping the wheel speed down on the burnouts because it was too smooth and quiet and I kept doing John Force style burnouts by accident...I just dont have a good feel for the car yet...and the drag radials were spinning super easy in the water I guess. Anyway ..coming out of the water on the second run I thought I heard a wierd noise...like a racheting sound...didnt sound right but not sure what it was...I backed it off the line and drove it back to the pits and put it on the trailer. The car has a 3" TTI exhaust system which was a real pain to put on and I would really like to aviod pulling the trans and tearing it down if I'm not sure if I even have a problem...but I dont want to drive it because if I did damage the roller clutch it will go KA-BOOM!!   so any ideas on how I tell if the sprag is OK? 
Last edited by Dr-Dave2; 07/03/10 04:31 PM.
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Re: How can I tell if I damaged my Sprag?
[Re: Dr-Dave2]
#739458
07/03/10 06:14 PM
07/03/10 06:14 PM
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Posts: 25,925
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
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Rio Linda, CA
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Were you in Drive when doing the burnout? If you started the burnout with the shifter in (1) as you should it's doubtful you hurt the sprag.
If you lightly power brake it in Drive does the converter hold the engine back? If you push the car forward can you hear the sprag squeeling? Yes to both is a good sign but I'd pull the pan and look for sprag debris.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: How can I tell if I damaged my Sprag?
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#739459
07/03/10 06:29 PM
07/03/10 06:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 401
Ohio, USA
Dr-Dave2
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Thanks John I was in Drive but it shifted itself to 2nd right away and maybe in to 3 ..like i was saying the thing makes more power than any street car I've ever had so the RPM got outahand before I knew what was going on. I had open header race cars in the other lane on both runs so it was hard to tell what mine way doing..good thing I have a rev limiter (5900) If you think I can tell by parts ending up in the pan...then I'll run down to the shop and have a look. Dave  Maybe I'll take some photos if I find some stuff that shouldnt be there
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Re: How can I tell if I damaged my Sprag?
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#739460
07/03/10 08:34 PM
07/03/10 08:34 PM
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Ohio, USA
Dr-Dave2
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Well the pan looks free of any rollers or springs. I unbolted the driveshaft at the rear yoke and rotated it by hand...no noises ...seemed pretty smooth in both directions. I was thinking the roller clutch should make the output shaft rotate easier in one direction than the other.  In my case it seems to turn about the same in both directions...  can anyone enlighten me as to what is normal? Thanks Dave
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Re: How can I tell if I damaged my Sprag?
[Re: Dr-Dave2]
#739461
07/04/10 12:35 PM
07/04/10 12:35 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
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torkrules
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Quote:
Well the pan looks free of any rollers or springs. I unbolted the driveshaft at the rear yoke and rotated it by hand...no noises ...seemed pretty smooth in both directions.
I was thinking the roller clutch should make the output shaft rotate easier in one direction than the other. In my case it seems to turn about the same in both directions...
can anyone enlighten me as to what is normal?
Thanks
Dave
Not to scare you or anything but sometimes these things get damaged and the only way to tell for sure is to pull it apart. Squashed springs, flat spots in rollers, and hairline cracks in the races are all potential problems. I'd hate to see someone get hurt or their car damaged by an unseen problem with the sprag.
Get yourself a low band apply valve body. If you want to keep the automatic shift start the burn out in manual low and then shift right away into second and then third.
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Re: How can I tell if I damaged my Sprag?
[Re: torkrules]
#739462
07/04/10 12:51 PM
07/04/10 12:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,379
Houston,Tx.
Lee446
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Houston,Tx.
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How come you can't do an easy burnout in drive? For years, that is how I did it, never overrevving, just enough to keep the tires spinning to heat them up. It would go thru the gears,in drive, 1,2,3, I would let off the brake and ease her out. I had my trans freshned up every other year by a good torqflite guy and never found any problems. Have I been doing it wrong all this time and just been lucky ? I have a column shift, normal v/body and a 5800 rpm governer and the car was very consistant, I left her in drive for everything! Educate me, please!
Last edited by Lee446; 07/04/10 12:52 PM.
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Re: How can I tell if I damaged my Sprag?
[Re: Lee446]
#739464
07/04/10 08:54 PM
07/04/10 08:54 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,715
closer to Canadian beer!
torkrules
I'm neurotic
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I'm neurotic
Joined: Nov 2003
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closer to Canadian beer!
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Quote:
How come you can't do an easy burnout in drive? For years, that is how I did it, never overrevving, just enough to keep the tires spinning to heat them up. It would go thru the gears,in drive, 1,2,3, I would let off the brake and ease her out. I had my trans freshned up every other year by a good torqflite guy and never found any problems. Have I been doing it wrong all this time and just been lucky ? I have a column shift, normal v/body and a 5800 rpm governer and the car was very consistant, I left her in drive for everything! Educate me, please!
Lee,
In drive, the low drum is being held by the sprag only. When you do a burn out, its tough to tell what the sprag is seeing (changes in traction, minute throttle changes, bumps in the road if the car is moving, etc.) All these things could cause the inner race of the sprag to bounce against the rollers/springs/outer race.
As you said, many people have done this for many years without incident.
I took my old trans apart years ago and thought I was doing all the right things (burn outs in second, etc) but I did do the occasional burn out on the street in first gear. When I took the sprag out and checked it over, there were a pile of hair line cracks all over the outer race.
Thats when I switched to a low band apply valve body.
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Re: How can I tell if I damaged my Sprag?
[Re: JohnRR]
#739470
07/05/10 05:35 PM
07/05/10 05:35 PM
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Posts: 4,588
St. John's Newfoundland
440newport
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Quote:
if it's turning easy in both directions I think it's pretty safe to say you damaged the sprag , you won't have rollers and springs in the pan unless you did some pretty severe damage and you'd find more than rollers and springs .
Does it have a billet drum ?
I sound like a broken record ...
 Turning it in reverse by hand is a much harder than forward, the difference should be pretty noticeable.
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Re: How can I tell if I damaged my Sprag?
[Re: 440newport]
#739471
07/05/10 06:04 PM
07/05/10 06:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 401
Ohio, USA
Dr-Dave2
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Quote:
Quote:
if it's turning easy in both directions I think it's pretty safe to say you damaged the sprag , you won't have rollers and springs in the pan unless you did some pretty severe damage and you'd find more than rollers and springs .
Does it have a billet drum ?
I sound like a broken record ...
Turning it in reverse by hand is a much harder than forward, the difference should be pretty noticeable.
Well P00P!!  ....and no not a billet drum
I was afraid of that!...could have been alot worse I guess...If I would of had open headers I might never have been able to even hear it and went ahead and made the pass
Thanks for everbody's insight.
Im not looking forward to pulling the trans at all, that TTI exhaust system is gonna be in the way and im sure that once its been clamped down its not going to come apart. This is one time when I miss my old '69 440 GTS Dart with fenderwell headers, that thing was too easy to get the trans out.
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Re: How can I tell if I damaged my Sprag?
[Re: Dr-Dave2]
#739472
07/05/10 06:28 PM
07/05/10 06:28 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,287
West Coast, USA
jbc426
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If it's any consolation, I've had my TTI system apart a few times to paint the car and add electric cutouts. It came apart pretty easy and went back together fitting even better than when I had it installed the first time. I did use a light coat of anti-seize on all the joints from the start though.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: How can I tell if I damaged my Sprag?
[Re: Dr-Dave2]
#739473
07/05/10 06:50 PM
07/05/10 06:50 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,715
closer to Canadian beer!
torkrules
I'm neurotic
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I'm neurotic
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,715
closer to Canadian beer!
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
if it's turning easy in both directions I think it's pretty safe to say you damaged the sprag , you won't have rollers and springs in the pan unless you did some pretty severe damage and you'd find more than rollers and springs .
Does it have a billet drum ?
I sound like a broken record ...
Turning it in reverse by hand is a much harder than forward, the difference should be pretty noticeable.
Well P00P!! ....and no not a billet drum
I was afraid of that!...could have been alot worse I guess...If I would of had open headers I might never have been able to even hear it and went ahead and made the pass
Thanks for everbody's insight.
Im not looking forward to pulling the trans at all, that TTI exhaust system is gonna be in the way and im sure that once its been clamped down its not going to come apart. This is one time when I miss my old '69 440 GTS Dart with fenderwell headers, that thing was too easy to get the trans out.
Yes I know. When I was younger, nothing was an inconvenience. Now taking out spark plugs is a monumental task. Put your head down and plow on through.
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Re: How can I tell if I damaged my Sprag?
[Re: Dr-Dave2]
#739474
07/05/10 11:05 PM
07/05/10 11:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,082
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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Quote:
Im not looking forward to pulling the trans at all, that TTI exhaust system is gonna be in the way and im sure that once its been clamped down its not going to come apart. This is one time when I miss my old '69 440 GTS Dart with fenderwell headers, that thing was too easy to get the trans out.
When you put it back together add in some flanges at the mufflers that way you can unbolt from the headers and the mufflers and drop the X pipe right out .
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he is willing to help me out and get me back in business in short order 
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