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Spark Plug Reading? Burning oil or Rich? #719551
06/08/10 10:33 PM
06/08/10 10:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 584
San Jose, CA
Blue69Charger Offline OP
mopar
Blue69Charger  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 584
San Jose, CA
My 471 hemi engine has about 700 miles on it. About a month or two ago when the weather started getting warmer it started smoking at higher speeds. Its hard to tell which color the smoke is but it looks blue and comes from both tailpipes. It starts to smoke around 45 mph which is about 2400 rpm with 3.91s and 26" tires. It will also smoke during deceleration from speeds above 45mph. It only smokes after the engine warms up. I run 20w50 oil and get about 60 psi of oil pressure at cruise and 25-30 at idle. It has the older mopar performance aluminum heads which were new when I got them, but I had the guide clearance checked, a valve job done and new seals installed (by a reputable shop) when I got them to prevent future problems. I put new plugs in about 60 miles ago and they are already starting to foul (see attached). They all are dark brown, and smell like gas. Some have a hard black buildup on them. I have two mostly stock 1850 holley carburetors. It idles well and doesn't smell like gas. My intake manifold is dripping a little from the front gasket. It's possible that the intake manifold could be leaking. I didn't put much RTV. However I didn't see any oil in the intake manifold/head runners when I pulled the carburetors. Are the carburetors running too rich when the secondaries come on or is it burning oil from a leaking intake manifold gasket or both?

6027378-HemiSparkplug.jpg (131 downloads)
Re: Spark Plug Reading? Burning oil or Rich? [Re: Blue69Charger] #719552
06/08/10 11:00 PM
06/08/10 11:00 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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definitely burning oil (blue smoke and plug appearance) and may be rich also. I'd check the float levels and the PV's for the richness but #1 is where the oil is being sucked in at


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Spark Plug Reading? Burning oil or Rich? [Re: Blue69Charger] #719553
06/09/10 06:39 AM
06/09/10 06:39 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 444
Newfoundland
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Crocker Offline
mopar
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Newfoundland
You may have an oil leak past the intake manifold gasket. The fact that it's happening in high vacuum situations (decelleration, highway cruise) suggests so. If it's an aluminum intake the bolts or studs have a tendency to loosen up through heat cycles. You may want to pull the intake, check the intake gaskets and check the intake to head fit. You'll probably need a new set of gaskets and recheck/ retorque the intake bolts occasionally

Re: Spark Plug Reading? Burning oil or Rich? [Re: Crocker] #719554
06/09/10 06:44 AM
06/09/10 06:44 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 843
Suffolk,VA
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ireland383 Offline
super stock
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Suffolk,VA
Get some good lock washers for the intake bolts if you don't already have them. That looks like oil sucking to me also.

Re: Spark Plug Reading? Burning oil or Rich? [Re: Crocker] #719555
06/09/10 08:37 PM
06/09/10 08:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 584
San Jose, CA
Blue69Charger Offline OP
mopar
Blue69Charger  Offline OP
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San Jose, CA
Thanks guys, I bought a set of stock fel pro intake manifold gaskets. I'm not sure if the mopar performance gaskets I bought last time were correct (P4120086). What type of sealer (and how much do you apply) do you guys like to use on your intake manifold gaskets?

Re: Spark Plug Reading? Burning oil or Rich? [Re: Blue69Charger] #719556
06/09/10 11:31 PM
06/09/10 11:31 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
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I like Permates "high tack" the red stuff in the spray can. it goes on evenly, is thin, is easy to apply & is super tacky and seals well. Most any type of sealer works well except silicone though I think there are several varieties of it that are fuel resistant but myself I dont like to use it there.


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Spark Plug Reading? Burning oil or Rich? [Re: RapidRobert] #719557
06/10/10 12:31 AM
06/10/10 12:31 AM
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CT
GTX MATT Offline
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If those are composite I'd try some different gaskets.


Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
Re: Spark Plug Reading? Burning oil or Rich? [Re: GTX MATT] #719558
06/12/10 09:21 PM
06/12/10 09:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 584
San Jose, CA
Blue69Charger Offline OP
mopar
Blue69Charger  Offline OP
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San Jose, CA
Thanks guys, this is what I found today when I pulled the intake manifold. 7 of the ports were leaking. This was with the mopar performance gasket and ultra orange rtv. I didn't have this problem with the stock gasket and ultra black rtv. It sealed so well it took me all day to remove the gasket and clean the residue last time. I'll try a stock fel-pro gasket and ultra black rtv again. Does anyone make a rubber coated steel core intake gasket to prevent something like this from happening?

Re: Spark Plug Reading? Burning oil or Rich? [Re: Blue69Charger] #719559
06/12/10 10:44 PM
06/12/10 10:44 PM

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try wiping a thin skin of rtv below/across the bottom of the intake ports next time, for insurance.

Re: Spark Plug Reading? Burning oil or Rich? #719560
06/13/10 11:02 PM
06/13/10 11:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,436
Oklahoma City OK
Cudajon Offline
pro stock
Cudajon  Offline
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Posts: 1,436
Oklahoma City OK
Too many leaks. Just for grins I'd put some plastigauge (or something similar [clay?]) and see if the manifold is flat against the heads. It really looks like theres a gap at the bottom of the intake. Like maybe the block was decked and a corresponding cut wasnt done to the intake.

Re: Spark Plug Reading? Burning oil or Rich? [Re: Cudajon] #719561
06/14/10 02:08 AM
06/14/10 02:08 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm Offline
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California
it's good to check that out, make sure the mating surfaces are square, but that is the way they look when they leak. there is so little gasket material at the bottom of the port that the vacuum just sucks the oil right up past the gasket if not sealed properly.

been through that...

Re: Spark Plug Reading? Burning oil or Rich? [Re: mickm] #719562
06/14/10 05:12 PM
06/14/10 05:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,436
Oklahoma City OK
Cudajon Offline
pro stock
Cudajon  Offline
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Posts: 1,436
Oklahoma City OK
Also you might use permatex to attach the gaskets to the Intake. Let it setup then smear grease on the gasket side that goes against the heads. When or if you have to remove the intake the gaskets will not have glued themselves to the head. I find it a lot easier to clean the intake. It does appear that when the intake was put on the last time it shoved the lower part of the intake gasket down exposing the ports. (by the way this works on blown engines so it must be able to contain pressure or vacuum)

Re: Spark Plug Reading? Burning oil or Rich? [Re: Cudajon] #719563
06/18/10 11:31 PM
06/18/10 11:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 584
San Jose, CA
Blue69Charger Offline OP
mopar
Blue69Charger  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 584
San Jose, CA
Thanks guys, it runs great now. Better than it ever did. No more smoking and it runs cleaner/smoother. I didn't have any problems the first time I put the intake on when I assembled the motor with the stock gasker/ultra black rtv. It was not until I pulled the intake to change the pushrods/lifters that I started having problems. I don't think the orange rtv worked too well. It came off really easy, and it was prepped with sandpaper/brake fluid. The ultra black was really tough to get off. The composite gasket could have failed too, It looks like it swelled up with oil and become soft.







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