71 RR with 383

engine was rebuilt 10 years ago, low miles since then.

First of all, it runs great, however, I have developed a "tick" or a "knock" when the motor is at an idle when IN GEAR.

Park and neutral it disappears. Oil pressure is awesome. 50 PSI at idle.

possible #1) Torque converter bolts. I took off the cover, all 4 bolts tight. Started with the cover off, knock is still there in gear.

possible #2) Comp XE valvetrain. I suspected a noisy valvetrain. I even swapped the roller rockers for stock stamped ones. Still there.

Maybe a lifter?

Now, for the question I haven't really addressed.

When this motor was done, the crank journals were align bored. This has left my timing chain "loose" or with some slack in it.

It is not sloppy, but I even swapped timing sets, still has a little play in it. When timing the initial, it occaisonally with jump around 1 degree on the dampner with the timing light.

I have wrapped this motor to 6500 rpm with no problems, however the slack has me a little concerned especially since I think it may have to do with my "piston slap/knock/ tick/ whatever when in idle. Give it a little gas and it goes away.

So, where should I look first to get rid of this crappy noise

and #2, for those who align bore the crank journals, how to overcome or eliminate the timing chain "slack". I know I can't be the only one to experience this.


thanks again!

eight

A couple of comments. If it was valvetrain noise, I think you would hear it both in gear and out of gear. I have no other ideas on the tick.

For the timing chain slop you can get a shorter timing chain. Cloyes makes .005" and .010" under chains. I needed a .010" under on a line bored "B" engine to get it tight. I got mine through a local engine builder. 440 Source sells short chains and I bet Summit does as well. "A little slop" suggests .005 under should do it. A little slop and 1 deg timing jump isn't that bad. Its good to take care of it but not an emergency.

You might check the flex plate for stress cracks.I had a 76 pontiac gp that had a cracked flywheel thought it had rodnock only made noise in gear at idle.

thanks for the response...

I am not terribly worried about the noise, but it does bug me (and it's embarassing) sitting in traffic.

I ruled out valve train due to it occuring when in gear, but I've been wrong before

Anyway, I will look into some of those timing chains, I'll throw one on with my next cam swap.

anyone else?

eight

Get a long extension and place it against your ear and to different places on the block until you find the noise at it's loudest then lket us know what you hear.

Good job asking the question; lots of info.
A couple questions to define it even better.

1. Oil pressure the same at idle in gear and in neutral?
A. What brand/weight oil and filter?
B. Have you tried thicker oil?
2. How much does the RPM drop in gear?
3. If you raise the RPM in gear to what it is in neutral or a bit higher (1200-1500), does the noise go away?
4. Is it exactly RPM related? If so, is it say 800 Beats Per Minute (same as crank RPM) or more like 400 BPM, more like cam/valvetrain/power strokes?

You seem to keep going back to the flex plate/bolts. Maybe for a reason. Check the crank shaft end play, make sure the flex plate bolts are not hitting the block oil galley plugs. (in the rear of the block, beside the cam plug) You also can look at the flex plate bolts very closely to see if they are hitting. will only make a small mark, possibly one only 1 or 2.

I know....maybe deep down I am hoping it really is something simple instead of a rod knock or something like that.

the tranny is a TCI unit which everyone does not like. It's lasted 6 years....maybe it's starting to fall apart?

I honestly cannot think of anything else

p.s. does anyone have a part # or location I can get a shorter timing chain for an align bored block? thanks

From Summit

Cloyes Gear 9-3125-5 - Cloyes Original True Roller Timing Sets


large image
Image is a representation of this part. Actual part may vary.
$125.95



+ Wish List
+ compare
Timing Chain and Gear Set, Original True Roller, Double Roller, Iron/Steel Sprockets, Mopar, Big Block, Set
Application Specific Part: Check Application
Estimated Ship Date: 6/24/2010Email this page Share
OverviewApplicationShow AllLarge Image
Brand Cloyes Gear
Manufacturer's Part Number 9-3125-5
Part Type Timing Chain and Gear Sets
Product Line Cloyes Original True Roller Timing Sets
Summit Racing Part Number CLO-9-3125-5

Timing Chain Style Double roller
Camshaft Gear Attachment 3-bolt
Maximum Advance/Retard at Camshaft 2 degree
Maximum Advance/Retard at Crankshaft 4 degree
Thrust Bearing Included No
Offset Bushings Included No
Gaskets Included No
Bolts/Studs Included No
Cam Sprocket Material Iron
Crank Sprocket Material Billet steel
Quantity Sold as a set.
Notes Will not fit factory roller camshaft applications, length reduced by -0.005 in.,

Thanks for the part number AHY, I'll definately look into that.

Ok, so I reluctantly pulled the roadrunner on the ramps and started poking around.

1) Took the transmission cover off. Looks good

2) Visually inspected each TC bolt. No scrapes or rubbed edges.

3) I spray painted each bolt, restarted the motor. Noise is definately there.

4)rechecked each freshly painted bolt. No paint scraped from any of the bolts.

5) The noise is definately coming from the rear engine/torque converter area. I started the motor, put in gear at idle with parking brake and wheels blocked. I got a mirror to make sure the transmission case wasn't bent on the bottom side and making contact with the ring gear. no scuffs on the case, teeth on converter are free of damage or rubbing.

6) Grabbed my stethescope. Listened around on the oil pan and block. I hear engine noise but nothing abnormal. Transmission case and engine sounds the same.

So...Here are my stabs in the dark. what do you think?

1)It is a mopar performace torque converter, 2300-2400 stall if I recall correctly. Could the inner fins be messed up or slightly "slipped" to make contact, resulting in a racket ONLY when in gear?

I know very little about torque converters and what innards could fail.

2) The transmission is the beloved TCI streetfighter tranny. Could a tranny pump or somthing be slightly off, causing the noise?

3) The TCI transmission is messed up so that back of the TC is rubbing the case somewhere. I would only confirm this by dropping the tranny and taking a poke around with a stick.

Anyway, thats the update for your reading pleasure. If you have any ideas or experience with this stuff, let me know. Thanks again!

eight

How's the flexplate?

do you have a magnetic drain plug? If so pull it and check for shavings. If you have a bearing going bad the tip of the drain plud will look like Beaker from the Muppets, Ask me how I know.

do you have a bad motor mount? trans mount? something could be knocking around at low idle.

quote:
"1)It is a mopar performace torque converter, 2300-2400 stall if I recall correctly. Could the inner fins be messed up or slightly "slipped" to make contact, resulting in a racket ONLY when in gear?"

I had a B&M converter fail internally and cause symptoms similar to your problem. I had a crank-speed tick that sounded exactly like loose flex plate bolts, but my noise was intermittent... it didn't do it every time I drove the car. The converter still performed well, it just made a noise that would come and go at first, and later did more staying than going. My pan magnet DID look like Beeker every 200 miles or so. I let it go too long and the converter wiped out the stator support and the input shaft....

take your stethiscope, checkfor exhaust leaks, header flanges,headpipes.

Yeah, I might pull the car back up on the ramps tomorrow and take a better look.


To me it seems the noise is more tranny/back of motor related, but I will look at the headers while I am at it. They are heddman elites and did have to be "pursuaded" to fit in perfectly. Maybe hitting barely against the starter or something.

I want to pull the tranny plug first though, and see what kind of "fuzz" I have on the magnet.

I usually can find exhaust leaks pretty good by running the motor and getting it warmed up, then dumping sea foam down the carb. I have seem many puffs of smoke in the past which I was able to fix with this method. Maybe it's time for another round...

I'll keep ya posted....

sigh


eight

Did you ever find out what was causing the noise?