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Re: my 440+6 Charger was outran by the tow vehicle....
[Re: JRs_Charger]
#71369
06/11/08 05:15 PM
06/11/08 05:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,085
Indiana
W5Duster436
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,085
Indiana
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If you can sit at idle not moving and rev the engine and watch the fuel pressure drop then you have some serious issues. First, put a timing light on it. This tuning by ear stuff is total BS. You probably have it running at 30 degrees initial. Get yourself a timing light and a vacuum gauge before you do anything else and start from there. Tune with the vacuum gauge to get the best vacuum at idle. I had to set my initial timing at 20 BTDC and 16 degrees of mechanical advance. With gas today the timing really has to be bumped up. What are the cam specs? That will make a drastic difference in where the initial timing needs to be. Also will affect which power valve is in the carb. Listen to these guys and learn.  Second, what kind of volume is that pump rated for? It may be 9 psi and 3 gallons per hour.. There is no way you should just rev the engine and see the psi drop.
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Re: sidebar
[Re: scatpacktom]
#71377
06/12/08 11:32 AM
06/12/08 11:32 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
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Just keep buying more new parts. It certainly helped during the build  . I know the differences in body and mechanical. I was ASE master for mechanical and engine performance. I also used to do full body jobs. The approaches to each are different. The closest relation would be making a Chinese fender fit perfectly on a Dodge pickup...lol. Sure, it attaches right off, but to look right, and make an average body look great, they need work. Right? Same thing, but to a MUCH greater extent, on mechanicals, and even more so on engines and performance engines. You know when a fender's bent. So it gets a new one. Well, your new parts are telling you somethings wrong. I would say diagnose it. I've seen cheapo fuel gages that are usless except at idle(Summit?). I've run a 175hp NOS plate, and a 400hp 340 off a stock AC Delco replacement fuel pump and 5/16 line. A friend just had an MP conversion shipped with a bad module. And always, they have to be tuned. The vacuum gage will tell you what it's doign at idle in terms of running. The compression gage will tell you if the cam's out. I think the cam's fine. It's all in the tuning. Which from what you are dscribing, is not what you usually are challenged to do at work. Tuning is not buying. That's pars replacement, and in engines, there's a ton to be done way before you get to that. If you think the fuel pressure is the cause, get a cheap diagnostic fuel pressure gage and connect it up, so it's visible as you drive. You'll see the presures then. With what you have, 5psi should be enough to feed it. If it idles at 7-8, and drops to 4-5 at full throttle, you should still be fine. Diagnose first, then buy if needed. 
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: sidebar
[Re: moper]
#71378
06/12/08 12:00 PM
06/12/08 12:00 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Lining up the marks should be ok.
This is the most ignorant statement I think I've ever witnessed on this board.
Think the 440 that I "lined up the marks" on with the MP .528 mechanical and Cloyes true roller that was retarded 8* would've run right?!
Look folks, it's an easy procedure and it's not for getting that last tenth or 2 out of the motor. It's to assure that the parts were stamped/ground/assembled correctly. Spent the effort and the 15 minutes to do it right! For the money you spend on the rest of the motor isn't it worth it to make sure you don't make it into garbage on startup?! 
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Re: sidebar
[Re: scatpacktom]
#71379
06/12/08 06:29 PM
06/12/08 06:29 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 254
Opelika, AL
JRs_Charger
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 254
Opelika, AL
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The mechanic that built the carbs put a vacuum test on the cabs and said that the end carbs were working. he races and builds pro mod dragsters, and was the champion this past year in a series I forget the name of, not to mention he builds 4 carbs on his race car, so I trust him with 3.
It just seems like the car is falling flat on its face. It will boil the tires for 50 feet, and then bog like its heat soaked, fuel starved, or something.
I forget the casting number of the heads, but they are early 70s truck heads. 452s I believe. They have hardened valve seats. i left the springs in from the 509 cam left in from the previous owner, because I plan to swap to aftermarket aluminum heads in the future.
The tow vehicle was a 4x4 F250 diesel with a 6 inch lift and some bullydog programming. How embarrasing.
The exhaust if it matters is factory hi po manifolds, with a new 2.5 inch exhaust, and flowmaster 40 series mufflers.
Also, I'm not just throwing parts at it, I've had this car for 10 years and have spent the last 4 building it. I am no mechanic, but I have spent every bit of free time and money to put this car together. I'm 24 working two jobs and just paid off a house, so it's hard to pay someone to work on what I could do. Although I do need some help here badly and appreciate the help here.
I know there are more questions, I'll try and awnser them here in a sec...
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Re: sidebar
#71380
06/12/08 06:47 PM
06/12/08 06:47 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,489
west kentucky
gomangoRTSE
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,489
west kentucky
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Quote:
Quote:
Lining up the marks should be ok.
This is the most ignorant statement I think I've ever witnessed on this board.
Think the 440 that I "lined up the marks" on with the MP .528 mechanical and Cloyes true roller that was retarded 8* would've run right?!
Look folks, it's an easy procedure and it's not for getting that last tenth or 2 out of the motor. It's to assure that the parts were stamped/ground/assembled correctly. Spent the effort and the 15 minutes to do it right! For the money you spend on the rest of the motor isn't it worth it to make sure you don't make it into garbage on startup?!
Silly rabbit, first of all HE isnt running a high lift mechanical camshaft. We put together street engines all the time without degreeing in the camshaft. Before U jump out and put your foot in your mouth, you need to compare apples to apples. No doubt there are advantages in some HP applications where degreeing in your camshaft is advantageous. I didnt say there was never ever a need to degree in a camshaft. But nearly stock engines get put together everyday all across the country that dont get have degreed in camshafts. Come on now, it wasnt the most ignorant posting you have ever ever seen in Moparts. Your a little full of yourself arent ya. Yea yea, go ahead my friend and degree in your camshaft and jump from 16.50s to 12s. Thats your problem. doh!!
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Re: sidebar
[Re: gomangoRTSE]
#71381
06/12/08 09:10 PM
06/12/08 09:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,044
At a gas station near you
badblack68
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,044
At a gas station near you
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Lining up the marks should be ok.
This is the most ignorant statement I think I've ever witnessed on this board.
Think the 440 that I "lined up the marks" on with the MP .528 mechanical and Cloyes true roller that was retarded 8* would've run right?!
Look folks, it's an easy procedure and it's not for getting that last tenth or 2 out of the motor. It's to assure that the parts were stamped/ground/assembled correctly. Spent the effort and the 15 minutes to do it right! For the money you spend on the rest of the motor isn't it worth it to make sure you don't make it into garbage on startup?!
Silly rabbit, first of all HE isnt running a high lift mechanical camshaft. We put together street engines all the time without degreeing in the camshaft. Before U jump out and put your foot in your mouth, you need to compare apples to apples. No doubt there are advantages in some HP applications where degreeing in your camshaft is advantageous. I didnt say there was never ever a need to degree in a camshaft. But nearly stock engines get put together everyday all across the country that dont get have degreed in camshafts. Come on now, it wasnt the most ignorant posting you have ever ever seen in Moparts. Your a little full of yourself arent ya. Yea yea, go ahead my friend and degree in your camshaft and jump from 16.50s to 12s. Thats your problem. doh!!
I disagree. I bought a new sealed in the factory box Mopar purple 440 6 pack restoration camshaft. My engine builder checks EVERY single part new or used. Well it`s a good thing he measured it before he installed it. It turned out the person who boxed up this cam had put a 590 solid lifter cam in this box. Right box, right part number WRONG cam! Hmmm, a solid lifter cam with hydraulic lifters. I`ve always degreed every single cam I ever installed no matter if it was a stock sized cam or a performance cam. I can just imagine what would have happened when first firing this engine if my engine builder just installed this cam and never checked it and then just lined up the dots on the timing gears....KABOOM! So, it`s not a point of being full of yourself, it`s the difference between a shade tree mechanic and a professional mechanic and for the 15 minutes it takes to degree a camshaft you`d be crazy not to do it. Listen to the guys on here. Buy yourself an advance timing light, a vacuum guage, and a compression tester. Then if need be, get a fuel pressure guage. If you can`t afford to buy these tools I`m sure someone at the track or one of your other friends would be more than willing to help you. You`ll never fix your car by just throwing more money at it. Something is definately out of whack with your car. Diagnose it, adjust it, then enjoy the heck out of it once you`ve solved your problem.
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Re: sidebar
[Re: badblack68]
#71382
06/13/08 09:42 AM
06/13/08 09:42 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
So, it`s not a point of being full of yourself, it`s the difference between a shade tree mechanic and a professional mechanic and for the 15 minutes it takes to degree a camshaft you`d be crazy not to do it.
Funny thing is, I consider myself a shade tree mechanic but I'd NEVER put together even a stock motor without degreeing it in anymore.
It has nothing to do with having high end parts! It's widely known that there was a run of Cloyes roller timing chains out there that were mis-stamped.
How many guys have cars running poorly out there because of this?
..and yes, it could be the difference between 16.50's and 12's.
Quote:
We put together street engines all the time without degreeing in the camshaft.
Wow, hope that luck holds out for you.... 
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Re: sidebar
#71383
06/14/08 03:51 PM
06/14/08 03:51 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,549
Seattle, WA
375inStroke
Special needs person
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Special needs person
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,549
Seattle, WA
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A stock fuel pump should be good for 13sec. 1/4s. Ronnie Sox got 13.00@111.52 with, of course, a 4-speed in a stock 6-pack Roadrunner. My junk yard 440 in a '69 Coronet with the junk yard fuel pump and Thermoquad that came with it runs 14.20@98. If you're running out of fuel, something's really wrong. Pressure means nothing. You can have thousands of PSI, but little flow. Think of those car lighter tire pumps that have a 300PSI rating. How long does it take for those to fill up a tire? You need to know the pressure under load at WOT. As for degreeing in a cam, the last cam I installed was 9deg. off. Glad I checked it.
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