Racecar Wiring
#696532
05/12/10 08:51 PM
05/12/10 08:51 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 482
Dirty South, MS
mopowered
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 482
Dirty South, MS
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Was tidying up some wiring in the bracket car and found yet another splice that I didn't know existed  PO Got mad and started ripping out wiring and didn't stop until ALL OF IT was gone. Also took out the dash, glove box, fuse box (junk) and a few other things (kitchen sink). It should be a few pounds lighter. Going to design the new wiring system from a blank sheet of paper. I don't want to use a fuse panel - this ain't no street car. I really like the switch panels and relay/fuse racks from ARC and I hear they come highly recommended. I did a few google searches for "basic racecar wiring diagram" and such but found largely nothing usable re: lessons learned. Any recommendations would be helpful and I intend to share my design if it works out. I'm thinking minimal, robust & possibly expandable.
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Re: Racecar Wiring
[Re: mopowered]
#696533
05/12/10 09:52 PM
05/12/10 09:52 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
Leon441
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
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I use ARC a lot. IN fact 99% of the time. There are some complaints. One is on the Pro Stock w/ nitrous panel you are forced to purge with ignition and nitrous on. SO I cut circuits and wire my own. The cage mount panels will come open when the thumb screw works loose.
I have never been a fan of Painless as the fuses can fall out of the holders.
ARC is a solid choice for the money, but there are some better panels on the market. I stay clear of the ones that put all the relays together on the interior side of firewall. Sorry relays need to be as close to battery and the load they supply. Example fuel pump relay needs to be between battery and fuel pump, on rear tank cars that would be in the trunk.
I toyed with the idea on a new job of using a Moroso panel because of the resetable breakers. If time and money were not a restraint I would make my own. There have been a couple companies that had some really trick panels that went out of business as they were just to high end and people could not afford them.
Spagettie menders is probably some of the most trick stuff I have seen and has many features. But, the relay panel is centrally located. Back to the fuel pump. You can still run another relay so it is not the end of the world. But, this unit is not cheap in price either.
My customers are limited in funds so I have never gotten the chance to use one.
Leon
Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
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Re: Racecar Wiring
[Re: Leon441]
#696534
05/12/10 10:23 PM
05/12/10 10:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 315
Russiaville, IN
mopar376d
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 315
Russiaville, IN
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If you have excel, I can send you the one I made.
You can customize it to your needs. I ran evrything to terminal strip.
Why does divorce cost so much?
Because it is worth it!!!!!
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Post deleted by Defbob
[Re: Leon441]
#696535
05/12/10 10:35 PM
05/12/10 10:35 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
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Re: Racecar Wiring
#696536
05/13/10 01:39 AM
05/13/10 01:39 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,401
Tucson, Arizona
MRMOPAR
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,401
Tucson, Arizona
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Fred
Who is your source for switches and fuses??
68 RR 528" INDY MAXX
07 2500 CTD
Southwest International Raceway - IHRA - Tucson, AZ
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Post deleted by Defbob
[Re: dusturbd340W5]
#696538
05/13/10 10:11 AM
05/13/10 10:11 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
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Re: Racecar Wiring
#696540
05/13/10 01:23 PM
05/13/10 01:23 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,179
Atco NJ
DJVCuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,179
Atco NJ
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Quote:
To all the disbelievers in doing it this way I ask how many relays do you see in stock Mopar or even GM and Fords system NONE
Fred... starters have used relays since the 30's... you dont have battery cable going into your ignition switch on a vintage mopar do ya?
so there is at least one... stock mopars also have them on the horn, as you dont have a large gauge wire in the steering column - Fords were the only ones I know of that had no relay for the horns...
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Post deleted by Defbob
[Re: DJVCuda]
#696542
05/13/10 03:33 PM
05/13/10 03:33 PM
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Anonymous
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Re: Racecar Wiring
#696543
05/13/10 03:43 PM
05/13/10 03:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
Quote:
well new cars have a bunch of relays in fact my 2006 Dodge Ram Diesel has at least 6-8 relays in the power distribution center so does my wifes 2010 Charger and just about every other car that comes in my shop that is newer than 15 years
And for the 80 years before then none were used and the need to have them never surfaced. Computer controlled cars may have a logical reason with all the crap on them but on my race car no
Fred that was back in the horse and buggy days  we have better technology now 
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Re: Racecar Wiring
#696544
05/13/10 04:15 PM
05/13/10 04:15 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,586
Illinois, Indiana, Louisiana
ProStDodge
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,586
Illinois, Indiana, Louisiana
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Sry - I'm going to have to vote with the relays on this one.
Yes the old Mopars all had horn relays and starter relays. So basically relays for the heavy current draw items.
Old cars didn't come from the factory with electric fans, electric water pumps, or electric fuel pumps. The cars that do come with those item use relays. And you know my 70 GTX with power windows has a relay from Ma Mopar, as did the electric head light doors for my 71 Charger.
Add a line loc and trans-brake to the race car wiring, and you should have two more relays.
Back to the post -
The ARC, K & R, and Spaghetti Menders systems all use circuit board mounted breakers and fuses to reduce the number of wire connectors.
Painless uses a more conventional fuse and breaker panel similar to what is used in factory wire harnesses.
For wiring RACE cars, I like the K & R and the ARC units - fewer wires to the switch panel - easier to hide and keep things neat. Haven't used Spaghetti Menders (yet) so I can't comment on theirs, but they look nice also.
For "ProStreet" cars, I like painless wire kits as there are usually several additional wiring connections which the 12-circuit or 18-circuit systems can help to keep the wiring looking less cluttered. They also have a standard connector for the GM style steering column (which was used by Mopar on all tilt steering columns in 70-74).
For the budget minded, the entire wire harness can be made up with switches and relays from the auto store. It just takes a little more patience and finesse to keep it looking neat and keeping the number of connectors to a minimum.
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Re: Racecar Wiring
[Re: ProStDodge]
#696545
05/13/10 04:35 PM
05/13/10 04:35 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
Leon441
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
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Relays are a low voltage high current electricians best freind. 16Volts and 30 amps would justify this.
Now to step on some toes. The relays most people use are the Bosch style 30Amp relays. I have even ordered the 40 amp relays of this style. I'm sorry they are junk when you simply slide connecters on the terminals. ARC has relay pods that you plug these relays into. They help absorb heat from the relay. These relays are used on OEM automobiles. How many times have you had to repair one the fuse panel. These relays are not that good when you really put a lot of current across them. I wouldn't use them for anything over 20 amps.
I have found a relay that kicks tail, but it is much heavier. It is a constant duty solenoid. Truckers use them to power all those lights on their trucks. Great for bottle heaters and multiple electric fans. It looks like a Ford starter solenoid.
There is only one place I will pick on you for not running a relay and that is a rear mounted fuel pump with the battery in the trunk. There is no sense in running 15 amps from your battery to the switch panel, over 20 feet in most cases, and back to the pump that was only 3 feet away to start with. Check it under load the batter is at 13.5 volts and at the pump you are lucky to have 10 volts. Use a relay and you have 13.5 at the pump.
Leon
Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
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Re: Racecar Wiring
[Re: Leon441]
#696546
05/13/10 04:56 PM
05/13/10 04:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,875
communist bloc of new jersey
jamesc
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,875
communist bloc of new jersey
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obviously people are free to do as they wish when it comes to wiring. i've been doing automotive wiring all my life including having a small business doing automotive electronics. aside from the work i've done i've gotten to look at a LOT of others. i've said it a thousand times the number one problem is workmanship which imho includes the supplies one uses to do the job. there's absolutely no reason to use a relay on a lowish current draw circuit and it add complication and weight. new cars use a lot of relays because they're using solid state controls to operate these circuits. i've done current draw tests on a number of different components and most do not need a relay. there's nothing wrong with bosch relays if they're properly installed which includes proper components. (Leon this is not directed at anyone) for those that disagree that's fine but imho if you have even one vinyl crimp connector on your car then you haven't done enough wiring to know the difference. i use only nylon with the extra metal sleeves and the correct 3M crimpers which are over $100 just for the stupid pliers. i use weatherpak connectors on certain components that you might want to swap out easier than if they were crimped. i also prefer the silver tinned, teflon covered mil-spec wire but it's pretty darn pricy. all opinions, everyone has them here are some of the supplies needed to to a good job. 
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Re: Racecar Wiring
[Re: Leon441]
#696547
05/13/10 08:08 PM
05/13/10 08:08 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 482
Dirty South, MS
mopowered
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 482
Dirty South, MS
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Thanks for the replies. I ordered one of ARC's flat-touch panels w/relay+fuse quad: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ARC-4000RThis should work for 1 - Ignition 2 - Starter (programmed for momentary operation) 3 - Water Pump 4 - Cooling Fan I it works like I hope - will plan to get another quad for the trunk: 1 - Fuel Pump 2 - Aux1 3 - Tail Lights 4 - Aux2 Those two quads w/a big starter relay should do the trick. Starter relay will terminate the batt cable from trunk and provide pwr to the front quad. Starter relay gnd connection going to neutral safety switch and activated by the front quad's momentary relay 2 output. All wires will be short minimizing loss and maximizing current available. Suppose I could optionally use a 100amp shunt inline w/the quad feeds to measure their current draw w/a gauge eventually if desired - they are cheap. Am I missing something? This seems weird as there will be no pwr in the cabin other than the tiny flat ribbon cable carrying low voltage to the switch panels. That won't work - will need pwr there for tach, shift light, gauges, transbrake & line-lock. Will need to figure those out.
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