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When you and "Chrysler" finally decide to make these bogus sheets available (mark my word it will happen if you do it or someone else does) then we and other Mopar boards will rehash this nonsence all over again and it will only lead to more discourse that this hobby does not need...

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Chrysler and anyone working on it with Chrysler would only be in it for one reason, $$$$.

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Well Dave....I would have thought that after reviewing the facts you would have drawn a different conclusion. I did these seven years ago and have sat on them with no need for the money that you assume "anyone" would have done this for. When people make unjustified comments like THAT, it only exposes their personality and what THEY would do in a similar situation. I think what you are actually saying is that YOU would only be in it for the money! Now before you respond and lecture me about how I have no right to judge who you are and what you think .... please remember the "hypocrisy" thread that could be posted somewhere down the road!

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Its obvious from the last posting on this that somebody's tooled up and ready go make them, as evidenced by the spools of paper and the printer.

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Yes, that was all done seven years ago. I am just extremely slow at bringing things to market. I probably need to contact Chrysler to talk to them about this in greater detail! It shouldn't take maybe another five or six years for me to contact them! Just out of curiosity....what else do some of you think that I will be doing (business related) over the next few years?

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Chrysler and anyone working on it with Chrysler would only be in it for one reason, $$$$.

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Well Dave....I would have thought that after reviewing the facts you would have drawn a different conclusion. I did these seven years ago and have sat on them with no need for the money that you assume "anyone" would have done this for. When people make unjustified comments like THAT, it only exposes their personality and what THEY would do in a similar situation. I think what you are actually saying is that YOU would only be in it for the money! Now before you respond and lecture me about how I have no right to judge who you are and what you think .... please remember the "hypocrisy" thread that could be posted somewhere down the road!

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Somebody already does make them. In fact "somebodies" already make them.

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Right, that's my point. Brow beating ECS for doing them sure isn't going to stop the others from doing it.
Again, knowing how to spot the differences is going to be the only defense against them.

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....And since he is licensed from Chrysler to make the broadcast sheets, along with his criteria for a customer to obtain a sheet, I could see the sheets as more of a 'reissue' than a reproduction.

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Thanks for your post Mark but keep in mind that we are NOT actually licensed to sell these. I want to take the time at this point to explain a few things that pertain to this subject. I also want to address the last post that Barry issued. (For the record, I think very highly of Barry and what he does. We have our differences sometimes but I would help him or anyone else to stop impropriety in our hobby.)

After I made these I approached Chrysler with the idea of offering them as a novelty item. They received EVERYTHING that I had made and said that they could be approved if we would agree on how to keep things in check. They told me to think about a way to do this and submit my ideas for final approval. During that time Dave S. and I talked further about this and decided it would not be good for the hobby. Now lets go back to the year 2002.

In 2002 there were very few people that knew about our company. The first two guys to reach out to me and introduce themselves were Dave Wise and Daniel Banker. I became good friends with these guys. A short time later I met Roger Gibson and he asked if I would consider trying to make accurate VIN decals. (After months of development we came up with the product that many of you guys have purchased over the past few years.) I submitted those items to Chrysler for licensing and they were approved. The first person to actually know about them being for sale was Steve Klein at the 2003 Nationals. I remember how excited he was to see "a closed 4" in the VIN number! One of the first guys to buy a VIN decal was Daniel Banker. He was so pleased with it that he posted pictures of it here on Moparts. The next day I couldn't believe all the calls I had people wanting to buy one BUT a separate group of guys desperately tried to have them taken off the market. What ensued was a ridiculous mess. Chrysler told me that the "guru" tried to have my VIN license stripped because he was concerned about the safety of the industry. He said that my decals would open things up for fraud and the hobby would be ruined! He tried 3 times to have my licensing revoked! Needless to say, we have a very close and solid relationship with Chrysler today!

Well here we are in 2010 and guess what? It didn't ruin the value of your beloved cars and ECS has ALWAYS kept air tight documentation from day one. Many of you who were actually opposed the VINs and feel the same about THIS scenario, ended up purchasing MULTIPLE VIN decals from my company! Go check out the testimonial from Chrysler on our website (www.ecsvin.com - under Vital Info.) It states that: "ECS Automotive Concepts complies with the stringent requirements established by Chrysler for proper verification, record keeping and continuing audit as it relates to the production of replacement VIN Certification decals." THAT IS HOW WE DO EVERYTHING IN OUR COMPANY! I have no intentions of marketing these sheets illegally. If they were to be available (again...no plans to ever do so) I can assure everyone that there would NEVER be any shady practices related whatsoever. I can assure everyone reading this that ECS is above compromising our standards for something that is as insignificance as these reproduction Build-sheets. Please stop worrying about all of this! The only thing that has changed is your guys awareness of it. I had these seven years ago! Prior to last week how many of you felt that our hobby was in "danger" because of this? Did any of you turn your back on Christmas when you learned the reality of Santa Claus and his Elves? Nothing has changed!


DW

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Dave, you are probably the biggest Grinch out there! Honestly, I think the Grinch even looks up to you. Let me find a pic of him and maybe we can email it to you and then you can post it on your avatar like you suggested when we talked on the phone. <<<<WARNING---- THE PREVIOUSLY POSTED STUFF WAS INTENDED FOR ENTERTAINMENT ONLY>>>>>> Now, the honest truth about Dave..... he has got to be one of the greatest guys that I know stopping and taking time to talk to anyone in the hobby. The dedication and research that he has done has only helped our hobby that I see, not hurt it. Maybe some of you would settle for crappy reproduction pieces that don't look or fit right. I for one am always tring to improve my cars and not settle for second best. Thankfully, Metro has also taken this adage and brought excellent repro door panels for the E bodys to the market. Now I don't hear anyone flaming them for making a part that is perfect. Granted, it is not a piece of documented paperwork, but as I stated earlier, paperwork can be authenticated by carbon 14 dating, just like any carbon based item can.

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As for being licensed by Chrysler, that does not mean it is ethical to reproduce a broadcast sheet, it only means Chrysler has given you their rights to produce something that they did in the past without having to worry about being sued by Chrysler.
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Then to use "your" logic, Chrylser by showing willingness to licence a broadcast sheet under conditions is either directly or indirectly acting unethically.

The poll isnt neutral based in its wording. Not at all. One can only read the questions to know the poster feels on the subject. That is readily apparant. Reword in a more neutral way then allow the people to vote on it.

1. Should an authorized Chrysler distributor who has been provided legitmate documentation of the original buildsheet be allowed to reproduce that buildsheet, or that buildsheet showing a watermark that determines its reproduction status.

There are alot better ways to neutralize these questions besides wording in a way to get a predetermined answer.

Thats like asking should a person who is convicted of a crime serve jail time. That question is worded to elicit a simple answer YES!

The more informative questionaire would ask.
1. What kind of crime?
2. What was the severity of the crime?
3. Was it under extreme durress?
4. Was it a first time offense?
5. Was it a simple misdomeanor?

What I am saying is the original question of "Should a person convicted of a crime serve jail time?" is simply directed to elicit the answer of yes.

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you think the availability of "reproduction broadcast sheets" undermines the integrity and reputation of those involved with reproducing them?
Users may choose only one (110 total votes)
Yes
56 51%

No
54 49%

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Clearly the sites members are evenly split on this issue. This despite the wording thats intended to elicit a certain response. There is no distinct verdict on this issue. With a 110 members voting its virtually a dead heat. So we gentlemen are at a stand still still. An intrigueiing issue we have here. "

There are no good guys, there are no bad guys, theres just you and me and we just disagree."

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Are you for real? You didn't read my quote very well. I wasn't even speaking of you. I said anyone working on it with Chrylser would be in it for the money. I guess if you take offense to that, then that makes you a guilty party. Enough said.

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Oh....I understand now Dave! You actually meant "Anyone". You were not talking about the normal meaning of "Anyone" as it relates to "ALL" people! You must have been referring to the OTHER people who represent "Anyone". Now keep in mind that throughout this entire thread I am the person that has been under the microscope as it relates to this subject matter but you were not referencing me.....right? NEWSFLASH Dave! I am the main party being talked about in this thread that has been working with Chrysler on the Broadcast Sheets! But you were referencing the other "Anyone" who might be doing this with Chrysler....right?



.....and you felt the need to ask if I am for real?!?! Oh my Lord!!!!

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This is good stuff.....
Reproduce them Dave, I'll buy one.
I'm about to place an order with you guys soon, as my Coronet is about home from the paint shop.
Thanks for what you do for this hobby.

Wally.

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