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Re: Broadcast Sheet Poll - are repros a good idea?
[Re: not_a_charger]
#681606
04/27/10 02:55 PM
04/27/10 02:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,108
Chicago Blackhawks
hemicar1971
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,108
Chicago Blackhawks
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Dave can you not just vote on the pole. You are not the only one in this hobby to have the capibility to reproduce Door Tags, Broadcast Sheets,etc. Once the technology is created, then it can be created again and again. As for being licensed by Chrysler, that does not mean it is ethical to reproduce a broadcast sheet, it only means Chrysler has given you their rights to produce something that they did in the past without having to worry about being sued by Chrysler.
Now let the attack begin, or maybe moparts should delete all threads that have to do with this kind of broadcast sheet discussion.
1971 HEMI E BODY REGISTRY
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Re: Broadcast Sheet Poll - are repros a good idea?
[Re: not_a_charger]
#681607
04/27/10 02:57 PM
04/27/10 02:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
62maxwgn
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
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Quote:
Quote:
This subject should be nicknamed "Medusa".
As soon as you chop off its head, it immediately grows back! 
And you have no idea how much this thrills me.
Go back to what I posted at the beginning.
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Re: Broadcast Sheet Poll - are repros a good idea?
[Re: not_a_charger]
#681609
04/27/10 03:35 PM
04/27/10 03:35 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,301
colorado
a12superbee
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,301
colorado
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The thinking is flawed if anyone believes that if ECS doesn't print them then nobody will.
If one guy can do them and admits it, then 10 other guys can too and they just haven't said so.
Once the cat's out of the bag......
No way is anyone on this board going to stop the freight train and the best recourse is education on how to spot the repops from the real ones. Just like is done with every other repop part that comes along.
I can't afford this.
mark
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Re: Broadcast Sheet Poll - are repros a good idea?
[Re: hemicar1971]
#681610
04/27/10 03:46 PM
04/27/10 03:46 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Dave can you not just vote on the pole....
(I think you meant "poll")
Of course I could have chosen to only cast my "vote" on this Poll. Just like you however, I also decided to comment on the subject matter at hand. Oh yes, I almost forgot..... I mentioned earlier about starting a Poll on the subject of "HYPOCRISY"! I assume you will posting on that thread too......right?
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Re: Broadcast Sheet Poll - are repros a good idea?
#681612
04/27/10 04:01 PM
04/27/10 04:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,651
Hamtramck, PA
Alaskan_TA
Fluffy Balladeer
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Fluffy Balladeer
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,651
Hamtramck, PA
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Quote:
Since this "poll" is basically about my company I want to ONCE AGAIN make something PERFECTLY CLEAR!!! I don't know why some of you can't seem to understand or ignore the fact that MY COMPANY IS NOT SELLING OR WILL EVER SELL UNLICENSED, ILLEGAL, BOOTLEGGED PRODUCTS!
I have not seen anyone dispute the legality.
I have also not seen anyone dispute that Chrysler would issue licensing for them either.
There are some of us that think making them is a bad idea, it has nothing to do with legality.
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Re: Broadcast Sheet Poll - are repros a good idea?
[Re: biginchmotor]
#681616
04/27/10 06:14 PM
04/27/10 06:14 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 54
Houston, TX
Crunchy_Frog
member
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member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 54
Houston, TX
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Quote:
Anyone see this? E bay item # 360248636490. Just curious, John.
$25 for something they printed from the tech archive here?
I would be more concerned with this one # 350338149583
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Re: Broadcast Sheet Poll - are repros a good idea?
[Re: mr_belvedere]
#681618
04/27/10 06:29 PM
04/27/10 06:29 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
....And since he is licensed from Chrysler to make the broadcast sheets, along with his criteria for a customer to obtain a sheet, I could see the sheets as more of a 'reissue' than a reproduction.
Thanks for your post Mark but keep in mind that we are NOT actually licensed to sell these. I want to take the time at this point to explain a few things that pertain to this subject. I also want to address the last post that Barry issued. (For the record, I think very highly of Barry and what he does. We have our differences sometimes but I would help him or anyone else to stop impropriety in our hobby.)
After I made these I approached Chrysler with the idea of offering them as a novelty item. They received EVERYTHING that I had made and said that they could be approved if we would agree on how to keep things in check. They told me to think about a way to do this and submit my ideas for final approval. During that time Dave S. and I talked further about this and decided it would not be good for the hobby. Now lets go back to the year 2002.
In 2002 there were very few people that knew about our company. The first two guys to reach out to me and introduce themselves were Dave Wise and Daniel Banker. I became good friends with these guys. A short time later I met Roger Gibson and he asked if I would consider trying to make accurate VIN decals. (After months of development we came up with the product that many of you guys have purchased over the past few years.) I submitted those items to Chrysler for licensing and they were approved. The first person to actually know about them being for sale was Steve Klein at the 2003 Nationals. I remember how excited he was to see "a closed 4" in the VIN number! One of the first guys to buy a VIN decal was Daniel Banker. He was so pleased with it that he posted pictures of it here on Moparts. The next day I couldn't believe all the calls I had people wanting to buy one BUT a separate group of guys desperately tried to have them taken off the market. What ensued was a ridiculous mess. Chrysler told me that the "guru" tried to have my VIN license stripped because he was concerned about the safety of the industry. He said that my decals would open things up for fraud and the hobby would be ruined! He tried 3 times to have my licensing revoked! Needless to say, we have a very close and solid relationship with Chrysler today!
Well here we are in 2010 and guess what? It didn't ruin the value of your beloved cars and ECS has ALWAYS kept air tight documentation from day one. Many of you who were actually opposed the VINs and feel the same about THIS scenario, ended up purchasing MULTIPLE VIN decals from my company! Go check out the testimonial from Chrysler on our website (www.ecsvin.com - under Vital Info.) It states that: "ECS Automotive Concepts complies with the stringent requirements established by Chrysler for proper verification, record keeping and continuing audit as it relates to the production of replacement VIN Certification decals." THAT IS HOW WE DO EVERYTHING IN OUR COMPANY! I have no intentions of marketing these sheets illegally. If they were to be available (again...no plans to ever do so) I can assure everyone that there would NEVER be any shady practices related whatsoever. I can assure everyone reading this that ECS is above compromising our standards for something that is as insignificance as these reproduction Build-sheets. Please stop worrying about all of this! The only thing that has changed is your guys awareness of it. I had these seven years ago! Prior to last week how many of you felt that our hobby was in "danger" because of this? Did any of you turn your back on Christmas when you learned the reality of Santa Claus and his Elves? Nothing has changed!
DW
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Re: Broadcast Sheet Poll - are repros a good idea?
#681619
04/27/10 06:57 PM
04/27/10 06:57 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583
San Antonio, TX
CurYellowBird
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583
San Antonio, TX
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The problem is it is up to the owner whether they want a BCS reproduced or not. I have scraps of mine left after the mouse got to it, but luckily the serial number is still legible along with other codes that match. In that case, I myself would like to have one reproduced because my car is numbers matching and original. If you cannot prove the options the car came with, numbers don't match up on the drivetrain, and other things, then that person should NOT be able to reproduce a BCS, unless they disclose that the car is not original and the BCS repro is clearly labeled as a fake. The big problem is that it is hard to completely prove the identity of a said car. I know one guy who had a completely rotted original 69' GTS Dart and a perfectly clean 69' Dart GT. He decided to swap the vin, fender tag, and all other numbers onto the Dart GT. In that case, it would be extremely hard to tell the difference as the base line dart body is identical to the GTS. There will always be some sort of fraud involved in the hobby and misrepresentation. The smart buyer and car nut would research and become informed on such topics as this and would be able to tell the difference. Case and point, a guy on craigslist down here in Texas claiming that his 74' Roadrunner is original with the numbers matching 383 and 4 speed. Hmmm most of us know that 383's had stopped being built in 71' and it would have been a 400. At that point, maybe the owner was confused about what he had or he was actually trying to lie and get max money for his car. This will haunt the Mopar world, as well as Ford and Chevrolet, for as long as the car hobby exists.  
Project War Bird:
1971 Plymouth Roadrunner
383 4 speed with air conditioning
GY3 Curious yellow
All original
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Re: Broadcast Sheet Poll - are repros a good idea?
[Re: rayztoy]
#681621
04/27/10 08:05 PM
04/27/10 08:05 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 426
Mid-Atlantic
Scatransit
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 426
Mid-Atlantic
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Dave, (we have not met, but I gather that is your name from reading these posts) May I ask: What criteria would be employed should a re-issued broadcast sheet be brought to market? What type and how much documentation would be required? Would the vehicle need to be seen by you, or a company rep? Would a data base be available?
Thanks for your time-Craig
[oo]======[oo]
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Re: Broadcast Sheet Poll - are repros a good idea?
[Re: Scatransit]
#681622
04/27/10 08:08 PM
04/27/10 08:08 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,550
Sacramento CA
Morty426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,550
Sacramento CA
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Quote:
Dave, (we have not met, but I gather that is your name from reading these posts) May I ask: What criteria would be employed should a re-issued broadcast sheet be brought to market? What type and how much documentation would be required? Would the vehicle need to be seen by you, or a company rep? Would a data base be available?
Thanks for your time-Craig
I think Dave has been very clear on this item. You have to have an original BCS to get a reproduced copy. Plain and simple.
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Re: Broadcast Sheet Poll - are repros a good idea?
[Re: rayztoy]
#681623
04/27/10 08:20 PM
04/27/10 08:20 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,697
North Central USA (MN-WI area)
MuscleMopars
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,697
North Central USA (MN-WI area)
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A broadcast sheet is the only thing that should not be reproduced to look like it might be an original. As everyone knows, it was hit or miss if a car got a broadcast sheet put in it at the factory and if you got one, you have one, and if you didn't, well, then you don't. If you have a 1/2 of one, you have a 1/2 of one. If the mouse chewed yours up, the mouse chewed it up. They are what they are and they should be left alone. End of story.
Thanks, Eric email eric@musclemopars.com
715-426-HEMI (Shop)
612-669-CARS (Cell and Texts)Go to my Moparts "Profile" to see my web site
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They were locked because they turned into personal insult bashfests.
as to why such a fuss? 
