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Help- Degree Cam #679619 04/25/10 04:07 AM 04/25/10 04:07 AM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 4,384 Worst Weather USA 493_DART OP master
493_DART OP master Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 4,384 Worst Weather USA	Ok, I cannot and will not understand this procedure. I feel like an idiot. Here are the instructions I tried : http://www.hughesengines.com/Upload/productInstructions/Cam_Instruction_Bundle2NEW.pdf Please dont try to explain all this because I just dont get it, BUT , i want to list the numbers i came up with and maybe you guys can tell me where Im at. I made it thru all the steps ( i think) . SO- towards the end ....Under "Checking the open/close of intake lobe" in the Pdf file above , step 3 = i get 256 ( or 76) on my degree wheel step 4 = i get 234 (or 54) on the degree wheel. after that Im lost. I find the rest too confusing and Im not THAT bad at math.......

Re: Help- Degree Cam [Re: 493_DART] #679620 04/25/10 06:04 AM 04/25/10 06:04 AM
Joined: Oct 2009 Posts: 5 Australia W wogboy member
wogboy member W Joined: Oct 2009 Posts: 5 Australia	Have you done a search on utube? there are many videos with visual aid.

Re: Help- Degree Cam [Re: 493_DART] #679621 04/25/10 07:09 AM 04/25/10 07:09 AM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,647 aotearoa rebel master
rebel master Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,647 aotearoa	i don't know how you're getting the number on step 3, thats way too high.

Re: Help- Degree Cam [Re: 493_DART] #679622 04/25/10 08:58 AM 04/25/10 08:58 AM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado 451Mopar master
451Mopar master Joined: May 2008 Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado	Are you sure you are measuring the #1 cylinder "INTAKE" lobe? The INTAKE lobe is actually the SECOND lifter bore from the front of the engine on the drivers side. The FIRST lifter bore is the EXHAUST lobe.

Re: Help- Degree Cam [Re: 493_DART] #679623 04/25/10 09:23 AM 04/25/10 09:23 AM
Joined: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,200 UK 6 602heavy pro stock
602heavy pro stock 6 Joined: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,200 UK	Maybe list the cam specs. It may help if you dial in the intake centreline , then fine tune the open/close points.

Re: Help- Degree Cam [Re: 493_DART] #679624 04/25/10 09:27 AM 04/25/10 09:27 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,932 NC 440Jim I Live Here
440Jim I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,932 NC	To get an idea of what is going on, you need to list the measurements as "BTC" or "ATC" etc. Some degree wheels have 54 degrees marked as before and some after, for example. So, sometimes you have to read backwards on the wheel to take a reading. ie the pointer is at 54 "BTC", but the formula needs "ABC"

Re: Help- Degree Cam [Re: 440Jim] #679625 04/25/10 09:39 AM 04/25/10 09:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,932 NC 440Jim I Live Here
440Jim I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,932 NC	Maybe this pic is a better example. The black line is at 80 BTC (BTDC), but also could be read as 100 ABC (ABDC). 5946102-Degree_wheel.jpg (163 downloads)

Re: Help- Degree Cam [Re: 440Jim] #679626 04/25/10 10:03 AM 04/25/10 10:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,932 NC 440Jim I Live Here
440Jim I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,932 NC	This is how I read Hughes instructions: Quote: Example 2: Using a larger camshaft where the intake opens before TDC with a 107 lobe separation angle. If for example the intake should open at 21 BTC (Before Top Center) and close at 49 ABC. Add the 21 BTC and the 180 (from TDC to BDC) and the 49 ABC, which totals 250 Divide the 250 by 2, this is 125 ie the installed centerline is 125 degrees from the opening (or closing) point. So intake installed centerline is 125-21 or 104 ATC. It should look like this attachement. 5946138-Degree_wheel_Ex2Hughes.jpg (100 downloads)

Re: Help- Degree Cam [Re: 493_DART] #679627 04/25/10 10:13 AM 04/25/10 10:13 AM
Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,746 Ontario, Canada Dodgem master
Dodgem master Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,746 Ontario, Canada	good instructions hear make sure your on the second lobe back intake. http://www.stockcarracing.com/techarticles/scrp_0607_how_to_degree_a_camshaft/index.html and http://www.carcraft.com/howto/116_0701_how_to_degree_a_camshaft/index.html

Re: Help- Degree Cam [Re: Dodgem] #679628 04/25/10 10:28 AM 04/25/10 10:28 AM
Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,746 Ontario, Canada Dodgem master
Dodgem master Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,746 Ontario, Canada	440jim shows it nicely on his wheel the lifter should move .050 off its base somewhere before TDC and be .050 from its base after BDC. Lets say it is a 250 intake duration cam at .050 say its 20 BTDC and 50 ABDC you take the 250/2 + 125 then since you got 20 BTDC you take that from the 125 - 20 = 105 so your intake centerline / max lift would be at 105 ATDC

Re: Help- Degree Cam [Re: 493_DART] #679629 04/25/10 12:41 PM 04/25/10 12:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,308 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,308 Bend,OR USA	The way I read the instructions your referring to is for checking the cam at .050 intake lifter lift from OPENING to .050 before closing or the duration at .050 lifter timing. These readings need to be done in relation to top dead center on the opening specs and after bottom dead center on the closing specs, try checking it that way and use the degrees before top dead center, BTDC( you may need to count backwards on your degree wheel) and the degrees after bottom dead center, ATDC. Let us know if that helps, if so we can help you do the intake lobe seperation angle also It is to bad that there are so many ways for the makers of degree wheels and company that offer instruction to confuse us racers Last edited by Cab_Burge; 04/25/10 05:19 PM. Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: Help- Degree Cam [Re: Cab_Burge] #679630 04/25/10 04:00 PM 04/25/10 04:00 PM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 4,384 Worst Weather USA 493_DART OP master
493_DART OP master Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 4,384 Worst Weather USA	im going to post pics of the 2 readings i got . Maybe that will help. Everything you all just posted above makes no sense to me . My brain just cant compute it and i dont know why YES--im on the #1 INTAKE lifter. I have to go to work now, I will post pics in about 8 hours

Re: Help- Degree Cam [Re: 493_DART] #679631 04/25/10 08:57 PM 04/25/10 08:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 26,012 United Socialist States of Ame... T tboomer Too Many Posts
tboomer Too Many Posts T Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 26,012 United Socialist States of Ame...	Post your cam specs,Kevin... Need your rear end checked out? Contact Grizzly!!

Re: Help- Degree Cam [Re: tboomer] #679632 04/25/10 09:29 PM 04/25/10 09:29 PM
Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 6,295 U.S. M moparniac master
moparniac master M Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 6,295 U.S.	1) Find top dead center by using a positive stop rotating clockwise until it stops, take reading on degree wheel. 2) Then turn it counterclockwise take another reading when it stops, then split the difference of the 2 readings and set the degree wheel to 0. 3) Then set indicator up on the deck surface with a pushrod (on intake lobe) contacting the indicator rotated clockwise to find max lift. 4) Then set the indicator to 0 and rotate clockwise to .050 after max lift take the reading on degree wheel. 5) Then turn clockwise to .050 before max lift took another reading off the degree wheel. 140+80=220*/2=110 Mopar Performance

Re: Help- Degree Cam [Re: moparniac] #679633 04/26/10 12:34 AM 04/26/10 12:34 AM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 4,384 Worst Weather USA 493_DART OP master
493_DART OP master Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 4,384 Worst Weather USA	here is the wheel after step 3 from hughes instructions :

Re: Help- Degree Cam [Re: 493_DART] #679634 04/26/10 12:35 AM 04/26/10 12:35 AM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 4,384 Worst Weather USA 493_DART OP master
493_DART OP master Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 4,384 Worst Weather USA	after step 4 -

Re: Help- Degree Cam [Re: 493_DART] #679635 04/26/10 12:38 AM 04/26/10 12:38 AM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 4,384 Worst Weather USA 493_DART OP master
493_DART OP master Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 4,384 Worst Weather USA	cam is a 108 says installed 105 . However , hughes says they have 3 degrees advance already ground into the cam. Im lost .

Re: Help- Degree Cam [Re: 493_DART] #679636 04/26/10 12:47 AM 04/26/10 12:47 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,308 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,308 Bend,OR USA	Someting is diffently not correct on those readings, is picture number one of the degree wheel with the lifter raise up .050 from beginning to open? If not it needs to be. Also is picture #2 with the lifter .050 from closing all the way? If not it needs to be Let us know Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: Help- Degree Cam [Re: 493_DART] #679637 04/26/10 12:58 AM 04/26/10 12:58 AM
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central RobX4406 I Live Here
RobX4406 I Live Here Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central	What is the @ .050 intake duration and make sure you are starting with the lifter on the base circle. The pic of the step 3 looks WAY off to me. If the cam is 270 @ .050 the intake open event at .050 should be about 27* before TDC, that pic looks like 104* BTDC If you put the timing chain on, line up the dots and have an accurate TDC indicated on the degree wheel, turn the crankshaft counter clockwise about 180-230* to get the lifter on the base circle and start from there zeroing out the dial indicator on the lifter.

Re: Help- Degree Cam [Re: Cab_Burge] #679638 04/26/10 02:30 AM 04/26/10 02:30 AM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 4,384 Worst Weather USA 493_DART OP master
493_DART OP master Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 4,384 Worst Weather USA	Quote: Someting is diffently not correct on those readings, is picture number one of the degree wheel with the lifter raise up .050 from beginning to open? If not it needs to be. Also is picture #2 with the lifter .050 from closing all the way? If not it needs to be Let us know the pics are labeled--- 1st is after step 3. 2nd is after step 4.

Re: Help- Degree Cam [Re: RobX4406] #679639 04/26/10 02:31 AM 04/26/10 02:31 AM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 4,384 Worst Weather USA 493_DART OP master
493_DART OP master Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 4,384 Worst Weather USA	Quote: What is the @ .050 intake duration and make sure you are starting with the lifter on the base circle. The pic of the step 3 looks WAY off to me. If the cam is 270 @ .050 the intake open event at .050 should be about 27* before TDC, that pic looks like 104* BTDC If you put the timing chain on, line up the dots and have an accurate TDC indicated on the degree wheel, turn the crankshaft counter clockwise about 180-230* to get the lifter on the base circle and start from there zeroing out the dial indicator on the lifter. cam duration is 268 / 272 at .050 , 108 cl Im going to try this again monday with the Comp instructions and i will take notes after each step and post what i get . Last edited by 493_DART; 04/26/10 03:07 AM.

Re: Help- Degree Cam [Re: 493_DART] #679640 04/26/10 07:21 AM 04/26/10 07:21 AM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado 451Mopar master
451Mopar master Joined: May 2008 Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado	If this is the Hughes HTL6872BS3 cam: 268/272 at 0.050" Intake Opens at 0.050" = 29 BTDC Intake Closes at 0.050" = 59 ABC The first photo does not make sense, The second photo shows the cam off by 5-degrees?

Re: Help- Degree Cam [Re: 451Mopar] #679641 04/26/10 08:44 AM 04/26/10 08:44 AM
Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 165 Johnstown ohio BluCuda member
BluCuda member Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 165 Johnstown ohio	Are you using a solid lifter to degree your cam? If you are using a hydraulic you will not get the correct numbers on the degree wheel.

Re: Help- Degree Cam [Re: 451Mopar] #679642 04/26/10 09:50 AM 04/26/10 09:50 AM
Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,746 Ontario, Canada Dodgem master
Dodgem master Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,746 Ontario, Canada	Quote: If this is the Hughes HTL6872BS3 cam: 268/272 at 0.050" Intake Opens at 0.050" = 29 BTDC Intake Closes at 0.050" = 59 ABC The first photo does not make sense, The second photo shows the cam off by 5-degrees? first makes no sense and by the second you have it installed 100 intake centerline (max lift) advanced 5 deg from where the suggested install is? yes Hughes has cam designed so that in theory lining the dotes up would put it at 105 intake centerline right where he wants it Last edited by Dodgem; 04/26/10 09:53 AM.

Re: Help- Degree Cam [Re: Dodgem] #679643 04/26/10 10:05 PM 04/26/10 10:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 4,384 Worst Weather USA 493_DART OP master
493_DART OP master Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 4,384 Worst Weather USA	I apologize guys , for any wasted time here........ I ran thru it again today and nothing made sense. IM out! SO , I left it "straight up" too late now, its buttoned up , im getting the heads on it tonight and maybe back in the car. Going to see how she runs. If i need to try advancing it 4 degrees this summer- no big deal .

Re: Help- Degree Cam [Re: 493_DART] #679644 04/26/10 11:26 PM 04/26/10 11:26 PM
Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,257 gulfport, ms, west mi rowin4 master
rowin4 master Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,257 gulfport, ms, west mi	No big deal, running it straight up will work, maybe not as good as advanced or maybe just as good. We all have brain fade sometimes. it's ok to butt heads, just don't do it with a butthead

Re: Help- Degree Cam [Re: rowin4] #679645 04/27/10 02:43 AM 04/27/10 02:43 AM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 4,384 Worst Weather USA 493_DART OP master
493_DART OP master Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 4,384 Worst Weather USA	the older i get , the more i have that brain fade ............ If i need to go 4 degrees one way or the other , i can do it later ....the cam is from Hughes so Im confident it will work either way

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