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How much HP? (440) #679572
04/25/10 12:36 AM
04/25/10 12:36 AM
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West Coast, Canada
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Dakota542 Offline OP
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I'm almost finished building a 440. This is my first 440 build, so I'm looking for a second opinion on my numbers.
I'm thinking about 430 horse, 475 torque?

std bore, flat tops, 0.080 in the hole.
steel crank, LY rods
906 heads, resurfaced, moderate port/polish, 2.14 & 1.81 stainless valves, hardened exhaust seats, new Lunati springs.
Double roller chain. Lunati voodoo #60302 cam (advanced 2 degrees) .475"@262 int, .494"@268 exh.
Holley street dominator intake c/w 750 holley VC (with a kit to adjust secondaries)& 1" 4-hole plastic spacer plate.
stock distributor, msd ignition, headers.

How does that sound?

Re: How much HP? (440) [Re: Dakota542] #679573
04/25/10 01:17 AM
04/25/10 01:17 AM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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What is your actual CR now? EDIT have you dissassembled/cleaned the dist & what springs/slot length

Last edited by RapidRobert; 04/25/10 01:19 AM.

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Re: How much HP? (440) [Re: RapidRobert] #679574
04/25/10 09:27 AM
04/25/10 09:27 AM
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Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
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boy those are waaay down in the hole. The compression is going to be the problem. I'm guessing w/ the 906 heads you'l be at 8:1. That thing would probably scream w/ 6psi of boost.


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Re: How much HP? (440) [Re: Mr.Yuck] #679575
04/25/10 09:51 AM
04/25/10 09:51 AM
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Ontario, Canada
Dodgem Offline
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I'm guessing real close to 9.25 to 1 with that cam and iron heads you will be right were you want to be for iron heads and 92 octane

Re: How much HP? (440) [Re: Dakota542] #679576
04/25/10 10:09 AM
04/25/10 10:09 AM
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Dodgem Offline
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Well with all accesories and open exhaust perfect day at sea level 440 hp and 510 torque!!
But depending on the mufflers you can knock as low as 10 hp and as much as 75 hp off.
look at 395 and 470 tq through a standard high flow 2.5" full exhaust at seal level perfect day.
Run of the mill 77 deg nice day 375 and 440 tq through all the exhaust
torque will peak about 4000 and HP at 5000 I would put a good all out shift point at 5600 for best results

Re: How much HP? (440) [Re: Dakota542] #679577
04/25/10 11:17 AM
04/25/10 11:17 AM
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Manitoba, Canada
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Calculator shows you will have about 9:1 compression. The 60302 is a small cam, you will be holding yourself back with that. HP will not be far over 400, but torq should be a little over 500 and all at a very low rpm.

Re: How much HP? (440) [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #679578
04/25/10 11:23 AM
04/25/10 11:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
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Quote:

Calculator shows you will have about 9:1 compression. The 60302 is a small cam, you will be holding yourself back with that. HP will not be far over 400, but torq should be a little over 500 and all at a very low rpm.




9:1? you think? what head gasket did you use in your calculation? I came up w/ 8.8 if he uses a steel shim head gasket and 84cc heads.


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Re: How much HP? (440) [Re: Mr.Yuck] #679579
04/25/10 11:26 AM
04/25/10 11:26 AM
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Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:

Quote:

Calculator shows you will have about 9:1 compression. The 60302 is a small cam, you will be holding yourself back with that. HP will not be far over 400, but torq should be a little over 500 and all at a very low rpm.




9:1? you think? what head gasket did you use in your calculation? I came up w/ 8.8 if he uses a steel shim head gasket and 84cc heads.




I got 9:1 assuming .020 head gasket, .080 in hole pistons(with no valve reliefs) and 90cc heads.

Re: How much HP? (440) [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #679580
04/25/10 12:52 PM
04/25/10 12:52 PM
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Dakota542 Offline OP
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Thanks for the replies. Moparmuscle says the heads are 79cc stock, and I took a bit off. The CR calulator I was using puts it about 9.25-9.4. I don't need more than that, because I want to run pump gas. Rule of thumb with cast iron heads- 10 points of octane per compression point. Sound reasonable?

As for the distributor comments - ??
Not up on my ignition mods, so is there any cheap tricks?

A couple more build points, if it makes a difference. I put in a windage tray, and file-fit moly rings gapped to .018 on the top. The second ring end gap seams to be a debated issue, but I went with .021; which is still within stock limits, but just.

A pic of the intake port

5946409-head011.JPG (56 downloads)
Re: How much HP? (440) [Re: Dakota542] #679581
04/25/10 01:10 PM
04/25/10 01:10 PM
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Kirkland, Washington
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I don't have a compression calculator at my fingertips but those 9+ numbers above look WAY optimistic to me based on 906 heads and .080" in the hole!!! I would think its something in the 8.5-8.75:1 range (???)
I think you might make your estimated 475torque number, but not 435 hp with that CR and that cam.
Power curve will be nosing over by 5600.
Maybe 390-400hp.

Re: How much HP? (440) [Re: Dakota542] #679582
04/25/10 01:11 PM
04/25/10 01:11 PM
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906's 79cc stock Try 88-90

Re: How much HP? (440) [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #679583
04/25/10 01:12 PM
04/25/10 01:12 PM
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Re: How much HP? (440) [Re: Dakota542] #679584
04/25/10 02:07 PM
04/25/10 02:07 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:

As for the distributor comments - ??
Not up on my ignition mods, so is there any cheap tricks?


This is a bone stock 70's electronic dist? I would take it apart, solvent clean then blow dry then lube the 2 pins that the 2 weights pivot on, the slight flange on the bottom of each weight where it sits on the pins, the shaft w the spiral rings, the plastic spacer (top/bottom/inside the ID and you've already seperated the flat plates for their cleaning by slipping off the triangle piece that locks them together & lube the 3 flat nubs where one plate rides on the other and lube the other side where the nubs ride as it moves back/forth from the vac adv. Note the amt of (dist) adv on the plate and the vac can for reference. Reassemble and set your initial timing for what your cam/eng likes. In gear at idle adv the dist until you get the most vacuum you can then back it off until the vac gauge drop 1 in hg. Then with the initial finalized open the dist back up (you didn't think this was going to be easy did ya ) and weld up/grind the 2 slots so you end up w 36 total (& note that total and initial are both checked/set with the vac adv disconnected/hose plugged if vac adv is used) and toss the heavy spring w the long loop and add (1) light spring from the MP cellophane kit along with keeping the original light spring that is already in there. You will have to go back inside and change the springs several times if you want to max out your setup (ready to buy the MP (Mallory) externally adjustable unit yet ) and you want a light of spring setup that will keep you just under the pinging point @WOT on your hottest/driest day which will make it come in probably somewhere between 15-2500 rpm then and only then hookup your vac adv (if used) and adj it w a 3/32" allen wrench to again stay just under the pinging limit @ PART throttle on your hottest/driest day with you at a steady speed/load at a rpm where the mech adv is already past max adv. The allen wrench changes at what vac the slope starts and therefore ends and does not alter the AMOUNT of vac a particular can will provide and different cans are available & one w 5-9 (dist) degrees on the arm is a good start. EDIT forgot the pic. MORE EDIT I'm assuming you reused stock pistons w new rings? I'd highly suggest/recommend going 20 over w some KB hypers to get the CR up PLUS quench which will let you run a significantly higher CR on the exact same octane wo pinging and CR is one of the main parameters of power & me personally I want the foundation (short block) to leave nothing on the table so any future upgrade whether it be heads/cam/intake/carb etc is making the MOST out of my eng that it can produce and also a higher CR makes the companion piston develop a much stronger vacuum signal out/up to the carb for better atomization, it's a good deal all the way around and only take a few more $$ to get it right in the beginning I'd CC/measure & find out EXACTLY what you do have for CR

Last edited by RapidRobert; 04/25/10 03:26 PM.

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Re: How much HP? (440) [Re: Dakota542] #679585
04/25/10 11:01 PM
04/25/10 11:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
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Quote:

Thanks for the replies. Moparmuscle says the heads are 79cc stock, and I took a bit off. The CR calulator I was using puts it about 9.25-9.4. I don't need more than that, because I want to run pump gas. Rule of thumb with cast iron heads- 10 points of octane per compression point. Sound reasonable?

As for the distributor comments - ??
Not up on my ignition mods, so is there any cheap tricks?

A couple more build points, if it makes a difference. I put in a windage tray, and file-fit moly rings gapped to .018 on the top. The second ring end gap seams to be a debated issue, but I went with .021; which is still within stock limits, but just.

A pic of the intake port




looks good but my cut closed chamber heads are 74cc. Most 906's are 84-88cc. I'll stick w/ original 8.5 - 8.8:1 quote.

Re: How much HP? (440) [Re: Mr.Yuck] #679586
04/27/10 12:38 AM
04/27/10 12:38 AM
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West Coast, Canada
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Dakota542 Offline OP
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Well with all the talk about 906 combustion chamber volume, I decided to check my heads.
83 cc, they've been re-surfaced - so not quite as advertised.

Re: How much HP? (440) [Re: Dakota542] #679587
04/27/10 08:07 AM
04/27/10 08:07 AM
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Ontario, Canada
Dodgem Offline
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So with a composition gasket that is 9.15 to 1 and all you want with that mild cam and iron heads on 93 octane. it will have good power don't worry

with a steel shim gasket you can get to 9.5 to one but I would stay with a fel pro style compostion gasket.
only a couple hp difference and more likely to ping with that mild cam.

Last edited by Dodgem; 04/27/10 08:10 AM.
Re: How much HP? (440) [Re: Dodgem] #679588
04/27/10 01:21 PM
04/27/10 01:21 PM
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Detroit Michigan
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what pistons are you useing?







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