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How did the pilot bushing seize on the input shaft? #675704
04/20/10 02:02 PM
04/20/10 02:02 PM
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Sacramento
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klc Offline OP
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I have about 30 minutes on my 383 when screamed about me pushing the clutch in. I spent a day trying to drop the tranny out of my 69 roadrunner. I couldn't pull the tranny more than a inch from the block; so I backed out the pressure plate bolts to separate the two. I have a new bushing in the freezer but it still seems real tight for the hole in the crank but very smooth on the shaft. When I installed the engine the bushing was new and lightly lubed. What is the proper installation for this? Is there different size bushings for a 383?

Re: How did the pilot bushing seize on the input shaft? [Re: klc] #675705
04/20/10 02:23 PM
04/20/10 02:23 PM
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Slidell, La.
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doctor_mopar Offline
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Cranks that were intended for manual trans cars had the pilot bushing hole reamed for a proper fit of the bushing. Crankshafts intended for automatics were not always reamed to a fine fit. At one time there were bushings available for both a manual trans crankshaft and a special one with the outside diameter a little smaller for the automatic crank used with a manual trans. I am not sure if the special bushing is still available anywhere. I say your best bet though, is to go to your Dodge dealer and get either the bushing, or roller bearing for a later model smallblock, that is made to install in the large diameter recess on the back of the crank, where the hub of a torque converter normally goes ! Make sure you polish the end of that input shaft first, and check fit of new bushing/ bearing.


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Re: How did the pilot bushing seize on the input shaft? [Re: doctor_mopar] #675706
04/20/10 04:28 PM
04/20/10 04:28 PM
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Santa Barbara, CA
HitIt Offline
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You can still get the undersized piolot bushing from Napa that is meant to fit in an unreamed auto crank. Balkamp is the brand, part number is BK615-1033. I paid $1.77 for one a couple months ago.

Re: How did the pilot bushing seize on the input shaft? [Re: klc] #675707
04/20/10 04:37 PM
04/20/10 04:37 PM
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Rio Linda, CA
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Has the bellhousing been dialed in? Severe misalignment can cause the bushing to seize on the shaft.


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Re: How did the pilot bushing seize on the input shaft? [Re: klc] #675708
04/20/10 04:51 PM
04/20/10 04:51 PM
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Ontario, Canada
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Stanton Offline
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So does that bushing move on the shaft now? Because it sure is a long ways on there !!

Imagine for a moment the bellhousing is misaligned. Since the variance is at the b/h face, the majority of impact will be on the input bearing and the mainshaft rollers inside the input gear. At the flywheel face there would no misalignment as this is the rotating center - i.e. if the b/h face is 6" from the flywheel and is misaligned by .006 then the misalignment of the input shaft at the flywheel face will be zero.

So, unless the b/h is severely misaligned then I don't think that's the problem.

Also, you say it "screamed" when you depressed the clutch. This doesn't make sense because depressing the clutch would relieve any stress on the disk from misalignment.

So ... I'm thinking that right from the getgo the bushing failed. The engaged clutch was actually keeping everything centered via the pressure plate. When you depressed the clutch, it allowed things to start oscillating and "screaming".

Re: How did the pilot bushing seize on the input shaft? [Re: Stanton] #675709
04/20/10 09:14 PM
04/20/10 09:14 PM
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kenworth_goose Offline
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Don't use that brass bushing, it's junk! You can get a roller type bearing that was used in the 94- up ram trucks. It sits in the bigger part of the crank where the torque convertor would sit if it were an auto. Use the magnum style roller bearing and you'll never go back to those junk brass bushings.

Re: How did the pilot bushing seize on the input shaft? [Re: kenworth_goose] #675710
04/20/10 10:23 PM
04/20/10 10:23 PM
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Stanton Offline
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Brass is for making beds, keys and doorknobs. Bushings are made of bronze. And they've been used in hundreds of thousands of motors for years. Whatever caused it likely would have killed a bearing too. Only being steel, the bearing would have welded itself to the shaft or shattered and spewed its guts into the clutch.

Get the right bushing and get the b/h dialed in and that bushing will outlive you.

Re: How did the pilot bushing seize on the input shaft? [Re: Stanton] #675711
04/20/10 10:36 PM
04/20/10 10:36 PM
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Temecula, Ca.
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Re: How did the pilot bushing seize on the input shaft? [Re: kenworth_goose] #675712
04/21/10 12:35 AM
04/21/10 12:35 AM
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Sacramento
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klc Offline OP
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Hey, thanks for all the great advice here. You gave me more home work. I found the newer pilot bearing at a dealer on the opposite side of town: Mopar #53009180AB Part #FC69907 {Needle Bearing; Shaft Diameter=0.7518" Housing Diameter=1.8161" Width=0.565"} and an informative write-up over at http://www.bigblockdart.com/techpages/4sptech.shtml. I gather the torque converter register (larger diameter hole in the picture) has been the same for all these years including mine (SB and BB). The bearing will fit in here and fit my input shaft. However; I agree the bronze is the correct way to go. I read about failure of the bearings. I have spent the past few hours trying to find a solution. The Napa Balkamp BK615-1033 is obsolete. Over at https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...t=1#Post3669791
is a bushing I should be able to get at Kragen that also fits in the torque converter register. I don't see it online and will make some more calls tomorrow. Do you think I can tap it in? I'm sure I can do this without rebuilding the bottom end of my 383. I got the bad bushing off. I think the builder pressed the correct bushing into the crank that wasn't reamed for the bushing (auto, not manual). The bushing was mushroomed. I think the bushing was disformed and didn't glide on the shaft. It got hot and bit in. The bushing walked up the shaft all the way to the splines and stuck. I'll post what I find.

Re: How did the pilot bushing seize on the input shaft? [Re: klc] #675713
04/21/10 11:52 AM
04/21/10 11:52 AM
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Santa Barbara, CA
HitIt Offline
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Quote:

The Napa Balkamp BK615-1033 is obsolete.




I've got one if you need it.

Re: How did the pilot bushing seize on the input shaft? [Re: HitIt] #675714
04/21/10 01:20 PM
04/21/10 01:20 PM
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Ontario, Canada
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Stanton Offline
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If you could get the spec on the obsolete bushing or even measure the crank, you could probably get the correct bushing at any bearing supply house. When an automotive supplier says its "obsolete" it quite likely means "we don't have the demand to carry it". It doesn't mean there aren't a billion other applications out there for the same piece!

Back to the issue ... it seems strange the bushing was loose enough to walk down the shaft and then seize! I'm thinking maybe it mushroomed when it hit the splined area after you depressed the clutch. Definately sounding more like an alignment issue.

Out of curiosity, was the clutch disk installed the right way?

Re: How did the pilot bushing seize on the input shaft? [Re: Stanton] #675715
04/21/10 02:15 PM
04/21/10 02:15 PM
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Indiana
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Fury Fan Offline
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Quote:

Brass is for making beds, keys and doorknobs. Bushings are made of bronze. And they've been used in hundreds of thousands of motors for years. Whatever caused it likely would have killed a bearing too. Only being steel, the bearing would have welded itself to the shaft or shattered and spewed its guts into the clutch.

Get the right bushing and get the b/h dialed in and that bushing will outlive you.




So true. As further related info -
Bearings have lower friction (generally) than bushings because they have point or line contact (depending on whether they are ball or needle bearings). The drawback is that the load is spread on a tiny area of each roller, so surface condition is very important -- and when it fails it can cause some heavy damage. That's something to keep in mind if you plan on rollerizing your automatic trans to reduce HP loss. If bearing fails and a roller escapes you'll throw most of your trans in the scrap pile. I've seen the aftermath of that. A bushing failure takes a bit longer and gives more time to catch the problem.

A bushing spreads the load over a wider area but at the expense of higher friction.

A bearing is not automatically a better item to use in every application.


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Re: How did the pilot bushing seize on the input shaft? [Re: Fury Fan] #675716
04/21/10 04:39 PM
04/21/10 04:39 PM
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Ontario, Canada
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Stanton Offline
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Right. And in the case of a trans input "bushing", the ONLY time the input is rotating in the bushing is when the clutch is depressed. The rest of the time the input shaft is rotating with the crank.

Re: How did the pilot bushing seize on the input shaft? [Re: Stanton] #675717
04/21/10 06:03 PM
04/21/10 06:03 PM
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Santa Barbara, CA
HitIt Offline
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Quote:

Right. And in the case of a trans input "bushing", the ONLY time the input is rotating in the bushing is when the clutch is depressed. The rest of the time the input shaft is rotating with the crank.




good point and explanation. That's why I always just use the bronze bushing, it's not that critical.


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