If someone does actually step up and start producing reproduction broadcast sheets , they will be at the top of the list , when it comes to shady characters .
Fabricated documentation is a big negative for everyone in this hobby. Their had been phoney
fender tags, window stickers , (under the table) dash VINS, Re-stamped blocks , etc. for years.
All the above have hurt this hobby . Countless buyers have been stung buying fake cars.
You either have your docs, or you don't.
If you don't, that's too damn bad .
Pulling documents out of thin air should not be an option.
If the reproduction sheets are not labled as reproductions, then , plain and simple, it's a matter of deception .
Intentions may be good, but those in favor of fabricated sheets are not thinking this thing through very well . Pretty much , all cars with legit documents will now be in question.
How does the average (or even above average) guy tell the real cars (and buildsheets)from the fakes ? Just like repro fender tags, dash VINs ,
window stickers, etc. these repro sheets WILL fall into the wrong hands, and WILL be used for financial gain by some . People used to be able to "trust" buildsheets . Now, all that trust will be taken away , just because some shi%a$$ wanted to make a little extra money when he decides to sell his car . Everybody knows they can "possibly" pull 10-15% more for a car with a sheet .So, now , everybody is going to have a sheet . It won't be long untill somebody parades
an FJ6 D21 AAR around with sheet , only to find out that the REAL sheet to that car was found in another AAR and is actually an FK5 D32 car .
We'll catch alot of these fakes, we may not catch them all , but you can't fool everybody , all the time.

Greg

No need to worry Gene! These will never get out to the public. ECS is a very reputable company and will not ruin the reputation we have built with something so insignificant. (Or anything for that matter!) We recently were awarded an OE contract from a new electric automobile manufacturer and something as insignificant as making reproduction build-sheets does not even register as being important. For a brief time we had even contemplated discontinuing our classic reproduction line (entirely) to concentrate on our other products. No need to worry about that either. We just hired some new employees so we are moving ahead on all fronts! For those who are asking, "Then why did you make them?" The answer is simple. I wanted to!

No....I have real ones! Where do you think I obtained the formats for some of the ones I reproduced? Besides, none of my cars are for sale nor will they ever will be! I don't need the money so I have given them to my children.....Erin, Conner and Sarah. (Also known as ECS!)

hmmmmmm..............

i'm pretty sure that door stickers are being reproduced.

is that fraudulent or OK ? ? ? ? ?

"If more folks had the courage to express their true feelings publicly (instead of through private messages) these topics might be better represented. I know why my comments are always being attacked and downgraded however. I was NEVER suppose to come on the scene and challenge the "establishments" or what they have preached for all of these years. The truth is that they are not really angry with me! They are angry with THEMSELVES for not taking take the time to do things right, therefore exposing THEIR OWN shortcomings! It is always easier to blame and attack someone else than it is to take personal responsibility. "

Well said and I totally agree.
Jules

Well let me step up publicly and say there is alot of hypocrisy and "better than thou" attitudes in here.

1. When many of us ask questions because we want to further know things, such as questions about fender tags etc, we get told "Oh well I wont say how come thats a bogus tag because you dont need to know." or "If I told you, then it would be easier for others to make a bogus tag."

We get the childlike treatment and the even more the most obnoxious "you'll have to take my word for it and shut up." kind of feeling. I suppose we should just look up to our Gods and accept the commandments like loyal disciples with no right to ask our svengali why something isnt right. This assumption only follows the theory that if I share my knowledge with you, then I might become less important or make less money or others will just be encouraged to cheat.

The IRS and other govt entities show you how to avoid problems, and helps with questions, I am glad they dont subscribe the theory above "If we tell them then someone will get around the system and cheat." No one person, business, or entity is greater than that of the hobby. When the 99.235% of us who have legitimate questions about our fender tags, build sheets or other documentation its because we are only concerned aboout our little world of owning 1 or 2 Mopars. If the information that the same 99.235% of gets makes it slightly more able for the 00.665% to cheat well thats part of it. The needs of the many outweight the greed of a few. The knowledge that the vast 99+% of us gains in order to keep from being cheated, keep from being scammed, and thereby enabling us to make a better informed opinion is far preferable than being treated like a child. An informed public makes informed decisions and thereby makes it harder for collusion and theft. I just cannot accept the "take my word for it" whether or not I send money or dont send money. I have to know why something isnt right.

Our hobby and this site seems to at times, have a hierarchy. Sometimes that hierarchy is offended or is competitive not only with each other but with the general public. I know alot of opinions I read here are based on "Hey this is how I make my living", and they will fight to the death defending a particular point of view. I see at times where our suppliers/vendors work in harmony to promote others products, and also when they butt heads and get brutally ugly with one another. The world of Mopar manufacturers, remanufacturers, reproductions/fake/whatever, or simply resellers of cars and parts is every bit as contentious as my old days in the Corvette world. Hmmmm perhaps they are even more ugly at times because the stakes are even higher.

But still all in all, I think each of our posters, and vendors contribute in their own way to the good of the hobby. I just disagree at times at the attitudes and inability to accept others points of view.

I judge a pesons analysis and point of view without regard to their income, standing, financial worth, or how many posts they have beneath their name. A good man is a good man, wherever he come from, or has obtained.

Finally and officially I advocate the reproduction of any documentation. With the respect to Reproduction Broadcast sheets, I have reread others opinions before running my own mouth off....again. You see I have a sharp tongue too. I think repro broadcast sheets should be available to the public providing each is clearly marked REPRODUCTION.

I have not mentioned any any names here, and I respect each of your opinions, if I have offended one over the other, you might want to see if the shoe fits. I even realize that if I had a high dollar Hemi car with ultra rare features, or more invested in the hobby I might feel different. I just think too few hold the knowledge, sometimes using that for financial gain. But eventually to perpetuate the hobby,people must share that same information with the vast majority of honest, hard working, Mopar owners.

Its not rocket science, and it doesnt promote world peace, or christianity, so lets dont get overly confident on how important any one person, business or entity is....no matter what good intentions one may have. The best intentions can result in the worst of consequences. Reality and perception are sometimes different and sometimes the same. I can say there isnt a one of you I would meet where I wouldnt want to spend all day listening and talking to you. Some things I would learn, some things I would disallow and some things I would disregard, but still having come out of it for learning more than when I went in.

Ah yes....the good ol'days...
Trailers were for camping, numbers were for counting, & build sheets were for starting the campfire...

There are many cars out there that have been reconfigured and mis-represented.
It's good that thate are those that track those that are 'found out'.
Once a lable is attached it will be difficult, if impossible to remove.

Well then I am in luck! I have IBS (which rhymes with ECS) and will be glad to test the samples on my crack... How is that for being brutaly honest?

Quote:

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I already HAVE made them! I have more than six variations and styles that perfectly represent the different assembly plants. Seven years ago "GG" made a comment in MCG that he could spot ANY reproduction that was made. That sounded like a challenge to me so I spent the next two years (off an on) reproducing the most accurate Build sheets ever made. I knew that these HAD to be perfect so every little detail, printing mistake and nuance was accurately reproduced. It then took over a year to correctly reproduce the fonts with varying degrees of shading and print inconsistencies. The actual sheets were printed (out of state) on the correct Heidelberg printing machines that were originally used to do these. I didn't just print one type or style! I knew that there were different variations with regards to the perforation cuts and collated edges. I had six different variations done covering 1969 thru 1970. The cost was a little over $22K to do all of this. The final test was when I had an anonymous person approach GG with my work and he "verified" it with no questions whatsoever!

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Careful your true colors are showing.

The fact that you did this to fool someone else is incredible.

To then openly post what you did and your reason shows you are one sorry(I cannot use the proper term on this site) desperado.