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I also believe that any item found should be free to the legal owner of the car. (My definition of legal does not include rebodied cars, I have denied items to folks who have cars with legal issues.)

With over 7000 items here waiting to be claimed for free (even the ones I had to buy), I try & set a good example for everyone.

That is how I feel about it & I am not going to argue with anyone that feels differently, I have better things do do with my time.

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If everyone in the hobby thought the way you do, it'd would be a better hobby to be in!

You go "above and beyond" as I would suggest you'd still be doing the hobby a big favor even if you did charge a nominal fee for your expenses never mind stuff you actually paid money for (usually to keep it out of the hands of the unscrupulous!)

Cheers,
Dave

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One more opinion.....

The word "value" keeps coming up. To me, the value is in enjoying the car, whether it is a racer, daily driver, project or a trailer queen. Your enjoyment of your car is where the true value is.

If I looked at one of my cars & just saw $$$$ signs, I would be looking for a new hobby.

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You must be a very rich man
See for me it's different...I have a wife and kids, mortgage, etc...So it's very hard for me to justify spending lots of money on a toy to 'enjoy" without knowing I got something (an assest) that is worth the money I spent.

It would be great to always be able to invest $100K in a car that worth $50K for the "enjoyment of the car" but I just can't make fianancial sense of that....niether could my wife.

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It is definitely an admirable gesture to be benevolent with something of perceived (or actual) value but the point I was trying to make had to do with the actual vehicle. Prior to the Broadcast sheet being found, what changed about the car? How did finding the paperwork change anything regarding what the car was or represented? Nothing! The guy wanted another $1500 for finding the Broadcast sheet. In essence, the seller was taking a lean against the "new found" value of the vehicle. The logic has to work in both directions. You shouldn't be able to use the paperwork to SIGNIFICANTLY increase the value of a vehicle that has been manipulated or messed with. If a car (that is no longer original) can be verified with a Broadcast sheet, then why can't an all original car be the verification to obtain reproduction paperwork? For instance, lets say that you find a 440 Six Pack that no longer has it's original engine. The color has also been changed from what it originally was. The VIN plate and fender tag verify what the car was prior to being converted and altered. If that car was sold, would it be less valuable because the Broadcast Sheet was missing? Would the EXACT same vehicle be worth MORE just because the Broadcast Sheet was with it? Is the value of ANY car based on what IT actually is or what a piece of paper says it is?

Pretty soon we will be discussing whether a tree makes noise when it falls IF no one is around to hear it!

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Finding the broadcast sheet changed everything. It validated/verified/authenticated what the car REALLY is and that makes it more valuable/desirable/marketable. I had a previous owner hold a broadcast sheet ransom from me once. My car was a Black Hemi RR with a very unusual stripe combination. Until that sheet showed up there was no way to prove the color and stripe combination was authentic to my car. So did getting the broadcast sheet change things. Yes!!!. The car would have cost me much more had the sheet been with it when I bought it. The second owner was the one that had the sheet, I bought the car from the 4th owner. So, paying his ransom was justified but certainly not what I would have done. If I had the sheet or any form of documentation for a car belonging to someone else it would be given free to the owner, only a gesture of appreciation would be necessary. I also have another Black 69 RR with V21 hood stripes and V7R Red accent stripes. I have two broadcast sheets, the original window sticker and the original fender tag for that car! Without all of that stuff I would have never even looked at buying that car. To me, factory authentication of rare colors, options, etc is important and is what drives the values. That's why clones are worth less than fully documented factory built cars. An analogy of a gum wrapper to a broadcast sheet is absurd!

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....the rhetoric opining that documentation shouldn't be worth anything is largely irrelevant...

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Hi Dave! I don't think that anyone is trying to say that the Broadcast sheet should not be "worth anything." The problem is that in some respects, the paperwork has become more significant than the actual vehicle it supposedly represents. Here is a scenario that actually happened a few years ago to a customer of mine. He bought a car but it did not have the Broadcast sheet when he bought it. At a later date he was contacted by the seller who said that he had come across some items (paperwork) while cleaning out his file cabinet. The seller wanted more money, NOT for the paperwork but for THE CAR that he had sold him a few months earlier! He would have been better off to tell the guy he wanted X amount for the Build sheet but he actually said the car was NOW worth more than what he sold it for! He said he would only give up the paperwork if the buyer agreed to pay the additional amount! While that PERCEPTION of value may have been true, what actually changed about the car? Did the vehicle morph itself into a different model when the paper work was discovered? Absolutely not! The car was exactly what it was regardless of the paperwork being found. Finding the Build sheet allowed the car to accurately be verified but in reality NOTHING changed with what he bought. (At least it was no longer a candidate for a parts car! )

It is similar to saying that a stick of gum isn't worth chewing unless you keep the wrapper! Having the wrapper might make you "feel better" about knowing that someone else hasn't touched it but there is no change in the actual piece of gum! What is more important....the gum or the wrapper? Paperwork only brings reassurance to the buyer or owner of the car. Sometimes paperwork adds value to a vehicle that is worth LESS than it actually is. Isn't THAT just as bad as "faking" paperwork to add value to a car? Why should "real" paperwork allow a lessor car to somehow be considered more valuable? Same logic only in reverse! It is the proverbial cart before the horse. How can one be acceptable while the other frowned upon?


PS....Speaking of gum wrappers, when I was a kid I chewed one of those aluminum wrappers that Juicy Fruit gum sticks come in and thought I had bit into a ball of needles! You can't do that when you have metal dental fillings.

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The only way a gum wrapper would be similar to a broadcast sheet is if there was a piece of poisonous gum and a piece of normal gum. The wrapper of each clearly says what each piece is. If the two sticks of gum looked the same the wrapper would be more important than the gum...

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You must be a very rich man

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...Finding the broadcast sheet changed everything......So did getting the broadcast sheet change things. Yes!!!.

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With all due respect, you have confused your sense of awareness with reality. The vehicle did not change! Your AWARENESS of the vehicle changed. You still had to "do" or "undo" whatever stage the vehicle was in at that particular time. Unless you own the real version of the car "CHRISTINE", I doubt that IT did anything to "change" what it was!

As far as the "gum wrapper" scenario, it is quite accurate. Both (broadcast sheets & gum wrappers) were a means to facilitate an end result for the MAIN PRODUCT. The Broadcast Sheets were "trash" once they served their purpose the same as the gum wrapper. Once you removed it...it became trash! Don't get me wrong. Both are important UNTIL they have served their purpose. Once again you have attempted to rationalize your perception of importance to explain the reality of the situation. Broadcast Sheets were NEVER considered an important piece of documentation by the Factory AFTER they served their purpose.

You don't like the gum wrapper analogy...how about this one? How many of us have ever assembled a Bar-B-Que Pit? Those instructions are VERY important during the build process are they not? What happens to them after the assembly is complete? Do you guys frame and laminate the Bar-B-Que Pit "build instructions" and keep them as a sacred piece of documentation? I doubt that anybody does. The Build Sheets were the same thing for the assembly line workers. Nothing more than a list of instructions on how to assemble the vehicle! After that.....throw them away!!! It is the Hobby that has made Build Sheets the sacred icons that they have become today.

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With all due respect, you have confused your sense of awareness with reality....Once again you have attempted to rationalize your perception of importance to explain the reality of the situation.

Broadcast Sheets were NEVER considered an important piece of documentation by the Factory AFTER they served their purpose.

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The reality of the situation is that in the real world, with real transactions occuring everyday, the buildsheet does add value.

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If I looked at one of my cars & just saw $$$$ signs, I would be looking for a new hobby

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I just sold one of my cars so I could keep my house a little longer, hopefully long enough to sell it too.

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It's safe to assume I'm now confused

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One of the pitfalls of a Broadcast Sheet (as it relates to current market value) is that it can make a car of lessor value (a basket case, an incorrect restoration, etc...) more valuable because of what it COULD be, rather than what it actually is.

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It is an added validation and verification above and beyond the fender tag, VIN tag, window sticker etc. of what the factory workers built

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The Window Sticker and Factory Invoice is the Holy Grail of paperwork. It tells EVERYTHING and MUCH MORE than the Broadcast Sheet. The Broadcast Sheet does not tell the actual production or sell date of the car, the Dealership it was sold to, the routing code from the Plant to the Dealership, The Dealer Code, the Zone Code, the wholesale price of the vehicle, the E.H. & O/markup costs, the hold back amount, the key codes, the list #'s, the Financier holding the Title, etc.... As I said in an earlier post, the Hobby has been brainwashed into thinking something that is not factually accurate. The Invoice AND the Window Sticker holds 100% more validity regarding documentation than ANY Broadcast Sheet.

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The Window Sticker and Factory Invoice is the Holy Grail of paperwork. It tells EVERYTHING and MUCH MORE than the Broadcast Sheet. The Broadcast Sheet does not tell the actual production or sell date of the car, the Dealership it was sold to, the routing code from the Plant to the Dealership, The Dealer Code, the Zone Code, the wholesale price of the vehicle, the E.H. & O/markup costs, the hold back amount, the key codes, the list #'s, the Financier holding the Title, etc.... As I said in an earlier post, the Hobby has been brainwashed into thinking something that is not factually accurate. The Invoice AND the Window Sticker holds 100% more validity regarding documentation than ANY Broadcast Sheet.

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It is an added validation and verification above and beyond the fender tag, VIN tag, window sticker etc. of what the factory workers built

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The Window Sticker and Factory Invoice is the Holy Grail of paperwork. It tells EVERYTHING and MUCH MORE than the Broadcast Sheet. The Broadcast Sheet does not tell the actual production or sell date of the car, the Dealership it was sold to, the routing code from the Plant to the Dealership, The Dealer Code, the Zone Code, the wholesale price of the vehicle, the E.H. & O/markup costs, the hold back amount, the key codes, the list #'s, the Financier holding the Title, etc.... As I said in an earlier post, the Hobby has been brainwashed into thinking something that is not factually accurate. The Invoice AND the Window Sticker holds 100% more validity regarding documentation than ANY Broadcast Sheet.

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