Re: reproduction broadcast sheet
[Re: anlauto]
#672037
04/20/10 07:48 PM
04/20/10 07:48 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Quote:
....The day he first saw the car on the lot at the dealer he didn't like the standard hub caps so he tells the salesman "see those hub caps on the other car there?...I want those on this car...then you'll have a deal" Before you could can say OE Gold the salesman swaps the hub caps.....
Now 40 years later.....
Here is another odd scenario that involves the assembly plant in contrast to the original owner. The Valiant that we are working on has door edge guards listed on the Broadcast sheet. The car never came with them! We are absolutely positive that they were never installed at the plant because there was not a single scratch or chip ANYWHERE along the edges of the original paint. When we got the car there was a set of door edge guards in the trunk that was dated 1970! Was this a mistake that was noticed at the dealership when she came to take delivery of the vehicle? Did the original owner notice the omission and the dealership order a service replacement set for her? Who knows?! We took them (the door edge guards) out of the package and positioned one into place to check the door gap with it installed. Upon removing it, the paint along the door edge became chipped and badly scratched. That helped to prove that there was no way they were simply removed during the life of the car! I seriously doubt that this car is the only one that ever had an entry on the Broadcast sheet that did not end up on the vehicle! Does this mean that the "holy grail" might not possess the absolute "deity" that was originally assumed?
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Re: reproduction broadcast sheet
#672038
04/20/10 08:21 PM
04/20/10 08:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,855 Georgetown Ontario Canada
anlauto
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I Live Here
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My first story above was fictitious of course, however here's a true story that affected myself. EVERY published picture of the pre-restored WORLD FAMOUS BARRELCUDA clearly shows the car with Road Lamps. A conversation with the original owner confirmed that the lights were on the car, as he ordered it, and were there at the time he picked it up. He's still alive and very well ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif) However....The road lamps DO NOT appear on the original broadcast sheet and other then the lamps themselves there was no original switch or wiring to be found in the car. I chose to restore the car without the lamps because that's what the broadcast sheet says... As for "it's your car do what you want" I agree some people believe that and that's terrific for them, but don't knock people who do not believe. This hobby is full of all different types of people. ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beer.gif)
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Re: reproduction broadcast sheet
[Re: Alaskan_TA]
#672040
04/20/10 08:56 PM
04/20/10 08:56 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Quote:
I have heard from one guy that said the door edge moldings were shipped in the trunk for dealer installation.
This might have been the case but the packaging was not "generic" like the wrappings that usually came from the factory for things like hubcaps, license plate brackets, etc..... They were in the Chrysler paper (elongated) envelopes that were usually found at the Dealership Service Parts counter. ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shruggy.gif) I realize that we have ventured far from the original intent of this post but I hope that the peripheral information is helpful to everyone following. Thanks for including that information Barry! ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbs.gif)
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Re: reproduction broadcast sheet
[Re: Captain Flapjack]
#672042
04/20/10 09:29 PM
04/20/10 09:29 PM
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Anonymous
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Quote:
if a car didnt have to come with a buildsheet then why does the mopar nationals OE judging deduct points if you dont have one?
You do not receive a point deduction if you do not have a build-sheet. It is considered "extra credit" or extra points if you still have things like the window sticker, invoice, traveler sheet, build sheet, etc....
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Re: reproduction broadcast sheet
[Re: Alaskan_TA]
#672045
04/20/10 09:41 PM
04/20/10 09:41 PM
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Anonymous
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Hi Barry, I will get a picture of the package and post it here. There might be a photo of it in the Mopar archives thread, "Taking it to the NEW next level". I can't remember if it had the month listed or not.
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Re: reproduction broadcast sheet
[Re: Convertcuda]
#672046
04/20/10 09:44 PM
04/20/10 09:44 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Hi Ken! Good to hear from you. The original paperwork is about the only thing that will bring a few extra points. They understand that some cars did not come with certain documentation so it wouldn't be fair to deduct for an item no longer existed or was out of the participants control. ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbs.gif)
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Re: reproduction broadcast sheet
[Re: Alaskan_TA]
#672048
04/20/10 10:06 PM
04/20/10 10:06 PM
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Anonymous
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The packages were white envelopes with blue print and also had the blue Pentastar. They were not in the generic type brown packaging that you showed in that photo. I also had original factory envelopes (similar to yours) with my Challenger for the ignition and trunk keys.
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Re: reproduction broadcast sheet
[Re: Alaskan_TA]
#672049
04/20/10 10:42 PM
04/20/10 10:42 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Quote:
The Briggs & Stratton envelope at the link below was under the carpet of my '70 Coronet. So, at least some items were packaged, door locks in this case.
http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/images/oddities/briggsStrattonEnvelope.jpg
Another thing to remember Barry is that the door locks were not a dealer installed item. More than likely the employee who installed those lock levers didn't take the time to properly discard the trash after installation. This scenario is very similar to what occurred with the broadcast sheets. Some of the installation jobs (carpet, gas tank, dash, head liner, etc...) allowed the assembly line worker to discard their "trash" in those concealed areas. The guys who installed items like the steering wheels, shifters, tires and wheels, etc.... didn't have those same liberties. Their installation parts were out in the open and didn't allow for hiding or incorrectly discarding the left over packaging/paper work! ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh2.gif)
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Re: reproduction broadcast sheet
[Re: Alaskan_TA]
#672051
04/20/10 11:24 PM
04/20/10 11:24 PM
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Anonymous
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Quote:
I did not say they were dealer installed. It was just an example of an item that was pre-packaged for assembly line use.
Sorry, I assumed that you were using that illustration to support what we had been discussing about the packaging for (factory shipped) Dealer installed parts. I'm not very smart Barry! You have to tell me when you switch from one subject matter to another! ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh2.gif)
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Re: reproduction broadcast sheet
#672052
04/21/10 05:41 AM
04/21/10 05:41 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,855 Georgetown Ontario Canada
anlauto
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I Live Here
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Posts: 11,855
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Dave Will you put the door edge guards in place now or back in the trunk ?
As for assembly line workers being "too lazy" to throw out the broadcast sheet....Would it not take more effort to put the complete thing behind the seat springs? If it was put there during the sub assembly, and it can't be seen after final assembly then why would it be deemed necessary to remove them and discard them?
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Re: reproduction broadcast sheet
[Re: hemicar1971]
#672053
04/21/10 09:31 AM
04/21/10 09:31 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165 Florida
cataclysm80
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Posts: 4,165
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Quote:
Well what are the rules anyone know and who will decided what the rules are or will be in the future.
I'd like to offer a suggestion. A FAKE part/document is one that is not original, but is being passed off as original. A REPRODUCTION part/document is one that is not original, but is NOT being passed off as original. I suggest ALL reproduction parts/documents be clearly marked as such in an inconspicuous location. On parts, it should be in a place that isn't overly visible when installed, like how Dales Cuda Shop puts DCS on the backside of their door handles. On documents, it could be smack in the middle of the back side of the document. Maybe in big letters "REPRODUCTION".
Parts/documents coming from Chrysler, or approved/commissioned/licensed by Chrysler should not be required to say reproduction. They are essentially extra copies/reissues/replacements. Still, there will always be differences between assembly line parts/documents and replacements for those in the know.
There will also always be dishonest people turning reproductions into fakes. We should all be aware of this, but at the same time, we can't stop making reproductions just because there are dishonest people in the world.
Broadcast sheets/window stickers/fender tags allow people who want to learn more about how these cars were originally equipped, to do so. They are a major tool in learning about what options were originally available on what makes & models from the factory. Fake broadcast sheets are a horrible thing. They hinder the learning ability of those in the hobby. Imagine someone printing math books that said 2+3=6 and passing them out to schools. It should have been 2x3=6. Close, but a little change can make a big difference. That said, I don't have a problem with reproduction anything as long as it's clearly labeled somewhere.
Tav
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Re: reproduction broadcast sheet
[Re: MOPARMIKE69]
#672054
04/21/10 09:40 AM
04/21/10 09:40 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436 Blair County,PA
62maxwgn
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
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Quote:
Without the original build sheet many options on a car cannot be documented. You cannot know exactly what the car came from the factory with. Simple as that. Now continue the
If you don't know what it was then it is what it is at present.Don't lose sleep over it,enjoy it for what it is.Lot's of is's and it's there. ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif)
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Re: reproduction broadcast sheet
[Re: anlauto]
#672055
04/21/10 09:45 AM
04/21/10 09:45 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,163 Mass
DAYCLONA
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I Live Here
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As for assembly line workers being "too lazy" to throw out the broadcast sheet....Would it not take more effort to put the complete thing behind the seat springs? If it was put there during the sub assembly, and it can't be seen after final assembly then why would it be deemed necessary to remove them and discard them?
The assembly shop doing seat upholstery had no more than 2 minutes assy time per seat to scan the Bsheet, pull the appropriate frame, foam and upholstery into shape and hog ring it together, so rather than stand in a pile of discarded BSheets during the day, the worker threw the BS on the springs, placed the foam over it along with upholstery, hogged it, then racked it for delivery to the line,....the BS was basicaly hidden trash at that point, not the "Holy Grail" it has become ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Twocents.gif)
Mike
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