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Re: 383man [Re: emarine01] #664342
04/08/10 09:02 PM
04/08/10 09:02 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,384
Worst Weather USA
493_DART Offline
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Tim-
i would go by what AEROSPACE recommends for that model. i have the instruction sheet for mine around if you dont have the pump yet.

Did you get the 350gph ?

Re: To relay or not to relay [Re: PARTSMAN440] #664343
04/08/10 09:33 PM
04/08/10 09:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,445
So Cal
Sinitro Offline
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Relays should be used to handle the high current lines..
The downside of using a heavy amperage switch is that with every make/break there is a spark.. This spark tends to oxidize its internal contacts and eventually it will build up resistance and fail...
Think about just like a set of ignition points..

Just my $0.01..

Re: To relay or not to relay [Re: Sinitro] #664344
04/08/10 11:08 PM
04/08/10 11:08 PM
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communist bloc of new jersey
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certainly no one is suggesting using a switch for starter current that's not a reasonable comparison. nor is anyone suggesting not protecting a circuit that's asking for problems and electrical fires are notoriously hard to extinguish if you don't power down the circuit. imho i use fuses as little as possible, i prefer circuit breakers. they can be had at a reasonable price and fit into a standard ATC fuseblock. there are also different styles of breaker reset. continuous cycle, reset after load disconnect and manual reset.

define "high current", the same arcing that occurs in a switch occurs in a relay. a quality switch will be reliable for many thousands of cycles. most of the "flashy" lighted switches that are so popular are junk as are switches with all plastic bodies. usually quality switches (micro, cole hersee etc.) aren't pretty and flashy, they're also usually not all that cheap. they're plain bat handled switches made of metal and bakelite (or similar). i've done a LOT of wiring over the years including gensets up to 300KW and the number one problem i've seen is poor workmanship which includes low quality materials. poor connections (resistance) result in heat and heat further degrades the connection it's a snowball effect.

i've used hundreds of relays over the years and if you're going to use a relay i'd tend to stick with bosch. years ago we started using potter brumfield and had a higher failure rate than the bosch. as for the chinese/taiwan stuff...if i found new ones in my shop i'd straight up throw them in the trash.

the lines you REALLY want to be careful with are the (imho) "high current" lines...battery and starter lines. they are rarely protected and special attention should be payed to their routing and armor. watch for sharp edges, use loom and grommets where they pass through bulkhead or firewall etc.

Post deleted by Defbob [Re: Sinitro] #664345
04/08/10 11:10 PM
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Re: To relay or not to relay #664346
04/09/10 06:55 AM
04/09/10 06:55 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 28
WI.
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I thought about adding relays,
but seeing that picture, I'll
stay with what I have.
Fuses no relays.
Steve

Re: To relay or not to relay [Re: 4Huntin] #664347
04/09/10 08:09 AM
04/09/10 08:09 AM
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Posts: 2,813
Blue Ridge, VA
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Why is it that most all of the "professional" wiring companies like Speedwire and Spaghetti Menders use relays? I'll stick with my relays!

Mike Gray

Duster Wiring

Last edited by OutlawFish; 04/09/10 08:10 AM.

RIP Monte Smith

aka: OutlawFish
'98 Bickel Dodge Dakota PST
Re: To relay or not to relay [Re: HemiDart68] #664348
04/09/10 10:22 AM
04/09/10 10:22 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,209
New York
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New York
No relay requires higher quality parts, but also fewer components means fewer failures. NASA would use relays, but also 2 circuits in parallel back to hot with a selector.
Under the car with a wrench playing with current while wet with gas isn't fun.


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Re: To relay or not to relay [Re: Plumb Wired] #664350
04/09/10 11:08 AM
04/09/10 11:08 AM
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nc
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Quote:

Why is it that most all of the "professional" wiring companies like Speedwire and Spaghetti Menders use relays? I'll stick with my relays!

Mike Gray

Duster Wiring


Relays really only make sense when they shorten the large wire hot run, when you bank up a bunch of relays on a block in a central location , it may look all neat and clean, but requires long, large wire hot runs that a good switch and breaker set up can provide cheaper and cleaner

Re: To relay or not to relay [Re: emarine01] #664351
04/09/10 06:36 PM
04/09/10 06:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,586
Illinois, Indiana, Louisiana
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I use relays to cut down on large "hot" wires to the dash/switch panel.

I have no "hot" wires running to my switch panel. one wire for each switch goes to the relay grd. And I run one ground wire from the battery to a terminal next to the switch panel and attach the other side of the switches to the terminal.

Take Fred's pic and jumper the "switched hot" to the same relay terminal as the "fused hot". and run the ground wire to the switch. Now there is one hot wire running to the relay (fused) and one hot wire running to the load (fan, fuel pump, water pump, etc..), with the ground running to the switch, there are only three wires from the relay.

The relays use about 1/4amp, so a small ground wire can be used and just about any switch can be used with out risk of arc'ing or overheating.

If you run lighted switches, you would only need to run one small hot lead to the switch panel which would power the lights when the switch grounded.

Re: To relay or not to relay #664352
04/09/10 07:47 PM
04/09/10 07:47 PM
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Indiana
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Quote:

Quote:

Why is it that most all of the "professional" wiring companies like Speedwire and Spaghetti Menders use relays? I'll stick with my relays!

Mike Gray

Duster Wiring




did you ever consider maybe because they sell them ?



Perhaps, but as others have said, relays have lots of advantages.

It's possible to create simple/crude/elementary logic circuits with relays, you can gang them together and have a SPDT relay switch between 2 circuits, have multiple switches control one item via a relay, even make a split 12v/24V system that charges with a 12v alternator.


Parts I seek: driver doorpanel, 65 Sport Fury, prefer black, needs to be 7-8 on 10 scale, might buy set 16" x 6" Dodge truck wheel(s), from early 70s?, takes 9" dogdish - need for a research job so cheaper is better. 69-73 C-body caliper brackets and/or splashields Send a PM.
Post deleted by Defbob [Re: Fury Fan] #664353
04/09/10 07:56 PM
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Re: To relay or not to relay #664354
04/09/10 11:28 PM
04/09/10 11:28 PM
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Dandridge TN
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I Have relays on my 69 Bee street car. Relays are used to power the fuel pump, Gearvenders, line lock, and MSD ingition box. All relays are activated by the ignition relay when the key is turned to on. This eliminates having to have switches in side the car to for all these items. Everything is also fused. The relays all take power directly from the battery with a circuit breaker between the battery and the relays. My RED uses a Painless race car wire kit and switch panel with all circuits fused and relayed.

Re: To relay or not to relay [Re: Dabee] #664355
04/10/10 04:01 AM
04/10/10 04:01 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 373
sandwich IL
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Posts: 373
sandwich IL
the best relay set up is spaghetti menders, full led and fused.no wires,just connect and go,they have 3,4,5 wired relays,or can custom make,this is what i have.

5917412-image3.jpg (72 downloads)

70 charger ,all aluminum 528 hemi 727 cope rmvb,680hp 670 tq,full sequential holley hp efi,full hotchkis tvs,qa1 k and lowers,borgeson steering box cass viper 11.75 with cass s-trac dana 3.54
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