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Re: Question about degreeing cam in car
[Re: MoparforLife]
#663971
04/15/10 08:35 AM
04/15/10 08:35 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,221
Jarrettsville, MD
tywebb2
OP
super gas
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OP
super gas
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,221
Jarrettsville, MD
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Someone else local to me mentioned that I shouldn’t drill the whole for the bushing the whole way through. Looking at how it all works I just don’t see how that will work? Right now looking at the cam sprocket, the dowel pin on the cam is flush with the outside surface of the cam sprocket. So if I do not drill it all the way through that will mean that the dowel pin will go through the offset bushing and then bottom out on the portion of the cam sprocket that was left undrilled….therefore the cam sprocket would not bolt up flush to the cam. Plus, the washer for the cam bolt covers the bushing anyway so there is no way it will fall out….unless the bolt comes out and at that point I think I would have bigger problems. Anyway….I would like to mess around with the offset bushings tonight so let me know what you guys think.
Moparforlife….all I can say is I am learning as I go and all of the responses I have received to this thread have been very helpful and I appreciate all the help. Sorry if it is a little boring for people well versed in this subject.
Dodgeem.. the crankshaft socket is Comp Cam part# 4799.
'72 440 Cuda
11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
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Re: Question about degreeing cam in car
[Re: MoparforLife]
#663973
04/15/10 09:36 AM
04/15/10 09:36 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Dodgem
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
My point being that whether it is is in or out of the vehicle the procedure is the basically the same. There may be a few obstacles to work around but the procedure is the same as will the end result 
So you added two more post of unhelpfull dripple to a thread you personaly deem to long. Move on when you see more than 0 replies and make us all happy.
   
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Re: Question about degreeing cam in car
[Re: Dodgem]
#663976
04/15/10 08:29 PM
04/15/10 08:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,221
Jarrettsville, MD
tywebb2
OP
super gas
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OP
super gas
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,221
Jarrettsville, MD
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Dodgeem: When I said earlier that I advanced the crank sprocket I didn't use an offset key. The crank sprocket has 3 keyways in it. One for straight up, one for +4* advance, and one for -4* retard. I just rotated the sprocket and used the +4* advance keyway in the sprocket.
I messed around with the Comp Cams cam sprocket offset bushings tonight. Here is what I have so far...
straight up 108.5* intake
+4* crank 104.5* intake
+4* crank / +2* cam 103.5* intake
+4* crank / +4* cam 101.5* intake
114.0* exhaust
I was going to pull the cam sprocket off again to mess around with some Crane Cams bushings I have but it was really snug and I couldn't wiggle it off so I figured it was a sign to leave it there. What do you think...101.5* which will end up at 102.0* once the chain stretches...right.
I noticed the rpm range Mopar publishes for the .509 cam is 2,600 - 6,000. At the track I have always shifted at 6K. Is there a chance I am advancing it too much?
I want to check the PTV clearances while I have it apart. If I set the piston at TDC when I install the lighter springs is that enough insurance against dropping a valve down in the cylinder?
'72 440 Cuda
11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
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Re: Question about degreeing cam in car
[Re: tywebb2]
#663977
04/15/10 09:01 PM
04/15/10 09:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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102 is fine IMO, I wish I would of put mine at 102. Lots of guys like to install the MP 590 between 99* and 101* for best performance. Installing your MP 509 at 102* isnt out of the Performance perimeter of that cam , by any means. At 102 with your 10.1 comp your cranking psi may get close to Race gas octane needs for driving around the street under load. And with its less duration compared the 590 will lose some HP over 6000 rpm. But with your combo I dont think that will matter. I say run it as is at 102* and let us know the difference in how it runs. With your 3000 stall vert it will be a good thing, IMO "Guarenteed"  I also understood that you werent using the crank offset keys. And by the way document your cranking PSI @ 110* retarded vs 102* advanced. Ive seen a 20# psi. difference just by advancing 4* Advancing a cam by 4* to 6* doesnt hurt the overall HP below 6000 RPM it just makes a Bigger cam seem smaller at lower RPM. mike
Last edited by Sport440; 04/15/10 09:53 PM.
73 Sport 440, 509 cam w/Eddys 3.91 and 28.1"/27.3 tire. Et. 60 ft. 1.435, 1/8th. 6.61 @ 101.80 mph. 1/4. 10.472 / 127.78 mph. 2950# race/with me,and pump gas.
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Re: Question about degreeing cam in car
[Re: Sport440]
#663978
04/15/10 09:30 PM
04/15/10 09:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,221
Jarrettsville, MD
tywebb2
OP
super gas
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OP
super gas
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,221
Jarrettsville, MD
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Ok...I am going to go with it where it is.
I measured the cranking PSI before I started and it was 140psi.
'72 440 Cuda
11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
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Re: Question about degreeing cam in car
[Re: tywebb2]
#663979
04/15/10 10:16 PM
04/15/10 10:16 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Dodgem
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
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OK I'm confused you got a gear set with just three keyways and then used an offset bushing???
What happened to the cloyes 9 keyway you were getting??
if your confident your right go for it 101.5 then chain stretch will be 102 and that will kick ass.
Trust me not a chance you are advancing it too much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Last edited by Dodgem; 04/15/10 10:18 PM.
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Re: Question about degreeing cam in car
[Re: Dodgem]
#663980
04/15/10 10:24 PM
04/15/10 10:24 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Dodgem
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
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Your cranking compression should go to 155 or more.
let us know!
don't forget the engine timing after your done. It is a good indicator of what you did as if you advance the cam 6 deg the timing will have advanced 6 deg
Oh it will still like 6000
Last edited by Dodgem; 04/15/10 10:24 PM.
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Re: Question about degreeing cam in car
[Re: Dodgem]
#663985
04/16/10 09:05 PM
04/16/10 09:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,221
Jarrettsville, MD
tywebb2
OP
super gas
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OP
super gas
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,221
Jarrettsville, MD
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Alright guys...are there any secrets to getting the valve springs off so I can put on the light springs to check ptv clearance? I have a spring compressor that is a fork style with the wheel that turns on the top to compress the spring.
The springs on the Eddy heads have some kind of flat spring on the inside of the actual valve spring. The fork doesn't grab the inner flat spring. Is this a problem?
I can compress the outer spring and get a lot of up and down play in the valve and spring but the valve retainer doesn't budge so I can't get to the locks? Help.
'72 440 Cuda
11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
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Re: Question about degreeing cam in car
[Re: Crizila]
#663987
04/16/10 09:30 PM
04/16/10 09:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,221
Jarrettsville, MD
tywebb2
OP
super gas
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OP
super gas
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,221
Jarrettsville, MD
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Anybody have a link to a good over the top lever type spring compressor?
'72 440 Cuda
11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
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Re: Question about degreeing cam in car
[Re: Dodgem]
#663989
04/16/10 11:44 PM
04/16/10 11:44 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Dodgem
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
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I like to have the piston up and use air to hold valves up. You know you can just use the adjuster on the rocker put the piston 10 before TDC and with dial indicator on retainer turn down till it touches. see how far back off and then 5 before then tdc the 5 after and 10 after  If you had 160 before I would expect .100 now or more.
Last edited by Dodgem; 04/16/10 11:45 PM.
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